Discussion:
The Sea Level is Actually Rising!
(too old to reply)
Roger Coppock
2006-06-17 22:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Contrary to the incorrect titles of other posts here,
the global mean sea level is definitely rising,
exactly as predicted by global warming theory. Please see:
http://sealevel.colorado.edu/
Loading Image...

There are enough other indications of a warming globe
to easily conclude that global warming is a fact, not a
conspiracy.

The global ground weather station network shows warming:
Loading Image...
The balloon record shows this same warming:
Loading Image...
The satellite record, in all its current interpretations, shows
that the air near the surface is warming too:
The URL below is one of the more conservative records from the
University of Alabama at Huntsville.
Loading Image...
The record of sea ice melting:
http://nsidc.org/news/press/20050928_trendscontinue.html
The glacier retreat record:
http://nsidc.org/sotc/glacier_balance.html
The bore hole record:
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/pollack.html

=-=-=-=
Also, the it is very well established that mankind is the
cause of the recent warming. Please read and see:

2) Over the last 28 years direct, not proxy, measurement of the
sun's output has shown no long term growth, so something else
must be warming the Earth:
http://www.pmodwrc.ch/pmod.php?topic=tsi/composite/SolarConstant

3) There are many other things that cause climate change.
Below, please find a graph of several of them. Note that
the green line, representing man-made greenhouse gas
emissions easily dominate all other potential causes of the
observed warming today and that they are growing the fastest.
Please see:

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/data/simodel/

Loading Image...

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-3.htm

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/crowley.html
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/gcmoutput/crowley2000/forc-total-4_12_01.txt
Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
2006-06-17 22:27:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Coppock
Contrary to the incorrect titles of other posts here,
the global mean sea level is definitely rising,
=========================

Yeah, we know . Atlantis has been flodded by seawater for thousands of
years now thanks to those %@$#%$%$ ing SUV's the Spanish drove and
caused global warming and the sea rising !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3227295.stm
d***@dan.com
2006-06-17 22:36:19 UTC
Permalink
You can't address any of this, huh?

***********************************************

Contrary to the incorrect titles of other posts here,
the global mean sea level is definitely rising,
exactly as predicted by global warming theory. Please see:
http://sealevel.colorado.edu/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Recent_Sea_Level_Rise.png

There are enough other indications of a warming globe
to easily conclude that global warming is a fact, not a
conspiracy.

The global ground weather station network shows warming:
http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/Global%20Mean%20Temp.jpg
The balloon record shows this same warming:
http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/Angell-Balloon.jpg
The satellite record, in all its current interpretations, shows
that the air near the surface is warming too:
The URL below is one of the more conservative records from the
University of Alabama at Huntsville.
http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/UAH-MSU.jpg
The record of sea ice melting:
http://nsidc.org/news/press/20050928_trendscontinue.html
The glacier retreat record:
http://nsidc.org/sotc/glacier_balance.html
The bore hole record:
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/pollack.html

=-=-=-=
Also, the it is very well established that mankind is the
cause of the recent warming. Please read and see:

2) Over the last 28 years direct, not proxy, measurement of the
sun's output has shown no long term growth, so something else
must be warming the Earth:
http://www.pmodwrc.ch/pmod.php?topic=tsi/composite/SolarConstant

3) There are many other things that cause climate change.
Below, please find a graph of several of them. Note that
the green line, representing man-made greenhouse gas
emissions easily dominate all other potential causes of the
observed warming today and that they are growing the fastest.
Please see:

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/data/simodel/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Climate_Change_Attribution.png

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-3.htm

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/crowley.html
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/gcmoutput/crowley2000/forc-total-4_12_01.txt
Nosmo_King
2006-06-17 23:42:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dan.com
You can't address any of this, huh?
***********************************************
Contrary to the incorrect titles of other posts here,
the global mean sea level is definitely rising,
http://sealevel.colorado.edu/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Recent_Sea_Level_Rise.png
There are enough other indications of a warming globe
to easily conclude that global warming is a fact, not a
conspiracy.
http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/Global%20Mean%20Temp.jpg
http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/Angell-Balloon.jpg
The satellite record, in all its current interpretations, shows
The URL below is one of the more conservative records from the
University of Alabama at Huntsville.
http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/UAH-MSU.jpg
http://nsidc.org/news/press/20050928_trendscontinue.html
http://nsidc.org/sotc/glacier_balance.html
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/pollack.html
=-=-=-=
Also, the it is very well established that mankind is the
2) Over the last 28 years direct, not proxy, measurement of the
sun's output has shown no long term growth, so something else
http://www.pmodwrc.ch/pmod.php?topic=tsi/composite/SolarConstant
3) There are many other things that cause climate change.
Below, please find a graph of several of them. Note that
the green line, representing man-made greenhouse gas
emissions easily dominate all other potential causes of the
observed warming today and that they are growing the fastest.
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/data/simodel/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Climate_Change_Attribution.png
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-3.htm
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/crowley.html
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/gcmoutput/crowley2000/forc-total-4_12_01.
txt
Just another Babs or Babs clone. They're all trolls with nothing to
offer but dusty newclips from 1975 or so.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
george
2006-06-18 04:39:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@dan.com
You can't address any of this, huh?
I'm waiting for the temperatures to get back up to what they were in
the 10th century.
And every 12 hours the sea rises then it falls..
I blame the moon
Thomas Lee Elifritz
2006-06-18 04:48:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by george
Post by d***@dan.com
You can't address any of this, huh?
I'm waiting for the temperatures to get back up to what they were in
the 10th century.
Don't worry, soon you dumbfucks will collapse civilization, and it will
be the 10th century all over again.
Post by george
And every 12 hours the sea rises then it falls..
I blame the moon
Yet global average sea level, global average temperature continue to
rise in lockstep with global dumbfuckism and hydrocarbon combustion.

Perhaps there is a connection. Perhaps you are a dumbfuck.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
2006-06-19 00:20:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by george
Post by d***@dan.com
You can't address any of this, huh?
I'm waiting for the temperatures to get back up to what they were in
the 10th century.
Don't worry, soon you dumbfucks will collapse civilization, and it will be
the 10th century all over again.
Post by george
And every 12 hours the sea rises then it falls..
I blame the moon
Yet global average sea level, global average temperature continue to rise
in lockstep with global dumbfuckism and hydrocarbon combustion.
===================

Another liberal that refuses to tell us when he sold his Gasoline car and
what color electric car he bought with his food stamps.
Thomas Lee Elifritz
2006-06-19 00:54:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by george
Post by d***@dan.com
You can't address any of this, huh?
I'm waiting for the temperatures to get back up to what they were in
the 10th century.
Don't worry, soon you dumbfucks will collapse civilization, and it will be
the 10th century all over again.
Post by george
And every 12 hours the sea rises then it falls..
I blame the moon
Yet global average sea level, global average temperature continue to rise
in lockstep with global dumbfuckism and hydrocarbon combustion.
===================
Another liberal that refuses to tell us when he sold his Gasoline car and
what color electric car he bought with his food stamps.
Another confused dumbfuck American who is unable to tell us why he does
not believe in the veracity of scientific methods, even when those same
scientific methods brought him the gasoline engine and the internet.

Oh, I get it, he heard it from a dumbfuck that global warming was wrong.

So, like a good little dumbfuck American, he's just got to repeat it.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
2006-06-19 15:01:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by george
Post by d***@dan.com
You can't address any of this, huh?
I'm waiting for the temperatures to get back up to what they were in
the 10th century.
Don't worry, soon you dumbfucks will collapse civilization, and it will
be the 10th century all over again.
Post by george
And every 12 hours the sea rises then it falls..
I blame the moon
Yet global average sea level, global average temperature continue to
rise in lockstep with global dumbfuckism and hydrocarbon combustion.
===================
Another liberal that refuses to tell us when he sold his Gasoline car and
what color electric car he bought with his food stamps.
Another confused dumbfuck American who is unable to tell us why he does
not believe in the veracity of scientific methods, even when those same
scientific methods brought him the gasoline engine and the internet.
==================================

No electric car eh liberal hypocrit maggot? i knew you could nto afford one
since when do welfare maggots like you have money for a new car?
Thomas Lee Elifritz
2006-06-19 15:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Another liberal that refuses to tell us when he sold his Gasoline car and
what color electric car he bought with his food stamps.
Another confused dumbfuck American who is unable to tell us why he does
not believe in the veracity of scientific methods, even when those same
scientific methods brought him the gasoline engine and the internet.
==================================
No electric car eh liberal hypocrit maggot? i knew you could nto afford one
since when do welfare maggots like you have money for a new car?
I live on a luxury island resort in the Bahamas, dumbfuck.

I use a sailboat, solar panels, and wind generators which I build
myself. I also occasionally use a spell checker too, dumbfuck.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
2006-06-19 15:42:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Another liberal that refuses to tell us when he sold his Gasoline car
and what color electric car he bought with his food stamps.
Another confused dumbfuck American who is unable to tell us why he does
not believe in the veracity of scientific methods, even when those same
scientific methods brought him the gasoline engine and the internet.
==================================
No electric car eh liberal hypocrit maggot? i knew you could nto afford
one since when do welfare maggots like you have money for a new car?
I live on a luxury island resort in the Bahamas, dumbfuck.
=====================

Oh a cocaine grower. No wonder you dont need an electric car .
Thomas Lee Elifritz
2006-06-19 19:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Another liberal that refuses to tell us when he sold his Gasoline car
and what color electric car he bought with his food stamps.
Another confused dumbfuck American who is unable to tell us why he does
not believe in the veracity of scientific methods, even when those same
scientific methods brought him the gasoline engine and the internet.
==================================
No electric car eh liberal hypocrit maggot? i knew you could nto afford
one since when do welfare maggots like you have money for a new car?
I live on a luxury island resort in the Bahamas, dumbfuck.
=====================
Oh a cocaine grower. No wonder you dont need an electric car .
Your lack of understanding of basic geography is stunning.

Cuz you is a dumbfuck, right?

http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Stinpo
2006-06-24 23:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Oh a cocaine grower. No wonder you dont need an electric car .
Your lack of understanding of basic geography is stunning.
His understanding of the drug trade is typical for a seppo too. He
thinks people that grow coca are rich.
REPIGS Bloodthirsty Eternal Wars Spawned From Lies
2006-06-19 03:46:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Another liberal that refuses to tell us when he sold his Gasoline car and
what color electric car he bought with his food stamps.
Another REPIG who refuses to tell us how many severed human heads he
keeps in his refidgerator...

Pedophile-Owned Washington Times Promotes Pat Michaels Latest Felony
Fraud

WE all know by now that the convicted Sun Myung Moon served time in
Federal Penitentary for several crime convictions.

In the book "The DARK SIDE of the MOONS" we find this
pedophile-procurer strongarmed a devotee to give up his 15-year-old
daughter as bedmate for Moon's juvenile delinquent 17-year-old son. If
any Christian preacher had done such a thing he would be inside
penitentary for 15-to-life.

Rightwingers love the pedophile Moon and his Washington Times.

Organized Crime also loves him, and gets loved back. Members of TASSC
(The A.S.S. Coalition, or The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition)
have an open door to use Moon's Washington Times as a platform to
bellow out felony fraud science hoaxes and insults.

Recently on May 24th, the notorious felon and science fraudster Patrick
J. Michaels used Moon's platform to dump another load of feces on
whoever reads that putrid rag.
http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20060523-105312-2838r.htm

TASSC Michaels comes from the corrupted University of Virginia, where
his cohort TASSC Fred Singer hails from. WHAT? You are surprised that a
tobacco state university with tobacco fortune alumni and tobacco
fortune bequests would allow faculty to join in a tobacco conspiracy
to defraud? Well get used to it because 46 states sued the tobacco
organized crime godfathers and used court subpoena power to yank out of
secret file cabinets 40,000,000 pages of evidence proving exactly that.
Fred Singer was a key operative -- in 1993 and 1994 he pulled off four
felony fraud crime operations, and for two of them he was was housed in
offices he admits were provided by pedophilist Moon.

APCO ASSociates organized an operation named TASSC with Philip Morris
Tobacco, and it had no other purpose than to discredit the EPA because
they declared second-hand smoke to be a cancer hazard. To hide Philip
Morris control of the group it was decided to add as many dirty
pollution corporations with EPA issues, like asbestos lung cancer,
chlorine-dioxin emissions. Lots of other groups were invited to join
under false pretenses. The control was held by the inner core of poison
and pollution comanies, and a cadre of already proven science liars was
recruited. S. Fred Singer was a TASSC Science advisor, as was
20-year-employee of tobacco companies TASSC Fred Seitz. Singer and
Seitz and Bruce Ames and Singer's then-wife Candace Crandell have been
the directors of SEPPtic Tank, created by Singer at Moon's offices
while Singer was masteriminding four major international science frauds
on tobacco payrolls.

Singer's buddy, collegue, partner-in-crime at University of Virginia
became a TASSC Science advisor, and has been accomplice of Singer's in
crimes committed from Cato Institute, where both receive pockets full
of Oil money. Cato was created by Killer Koch brother Charles, and
Killer Koch brother David watches over the family puppetstrings as
director. TASSC Steve Milloy is also a partner of TASSC Michaels and
TASSC Singer at Cato.

TASSC Steve Milloy is also an employee of FOX NEWS which is owned by
Rupert Milloy who was on the Board of Directors of Cato and Philip
Morris simultaneously. Cato usually has had a vice president or
executive on its board, so it is not surprising that Cato hires TASSC
tobacco fraud operatives. What isn't well know is that Killer Koch
Brothers are oil billionaires with the largest pollution fines in US
history -- so then it is not surprising that they want to murder the
EPA who keeps catching them pollute America and causing them to get
fined. In recent years Koch Industries had paid out $55,000,000.00 in
fines, $10 million of that was CRIMINAL FINES for violating CRIMINAL
LAWS.

TASSC Patrick Michaels is the hired character assassin to help the oil
billionaires and the tobacco billionaires and the convicted
felon-pedophile billionaire to keep subverting America for private
profits. Exxon, Killer Koch Oil, Drunkard Scaife Oil Fortune and
Greening Earth-Western Fuels Coal have lavishly routed money into
character assassin TASSC Patrick Michaels pockets.


TASSC Patrick J. Michaels FACTSHEET:
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=4
TASSC Michaels known ORGANIZATIONS
- The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition
The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition has received $30,000
from ExxonMobil since 1998.
- Cato Institute
Cato Institute has received $90,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
Koch Oil funding for Cato Institute = $12,999,240.
Scaife Oil Fortune funding for Cato Institute = $2,057,500
- Independent Commission on Environmental Education (project of the
George Marshall Institute)
George C. Marshall Institute has received $630,000 from
ExxonMobil since 1998.
Koch Oil funding for George C. Marshall Institute = $30,000
Scaife Oil Fortune funding for George C. Marshall Foundation =
$100,000
- American Council on Science and Health (ACSH)
American Council on Science and Health has received $110,000
from ExxonMobil since 1998.
Koch Oil funding for American Council on Science and Health =
$6,000
Scaife Oil Fortune funding for American Council on Science and
Health = $205,000
- Consumer Alert (Competitive Enterprise Institute)
Consumer Alert has received $70,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
Competitive Enterprise Institute has received $2,005,000 from
ExxonMobil since 1998.
Koch Oil funding for Consumer Alert = $10,000
Koch Oil funding for Competitive Enterprise Institute = $666,420
Scaife Oil Fortune funding Competitive Enterprise Institute =
$1,800,000
- Cooler Heads Coalition (Competitive Enterprise Institute)
Competitive Enterprise Institute has received $2,005,000 from
ExxonMobil since 1998.
Koch Oil funding for Competitive Enterprise Institute = $666,420
Scaife Oil Fortune funding Competitive Enterprise Institute =
$1,800,000
- American Policy Center (member of the Cooler Heads Coalition)
Competitive Enterprise Institute has received $2,005,000 from
ExxonMobil since 1998.
Koch Oil funding for Competitive Enterprise Institute = $666,420
Scaife Oil Fortune funding Competitive Enterprise Institute =
$1,800,000
- Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow
Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow has received $472,000 from
ExxonMobil since 1998.
Scaife Oil Fortune funding Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow
1,020,000
- American Legislative Exchange Council
American Legislative Exchange Council has received $1,189,700
from ExxonMobil since 1998.
Koch Oil funding for American Legislative Exchange Council =
$393,000
Scaife Oil Fortune funding American Legislative Exchange Council
= $1,545,000
- Weidenbaum Center on the Economy, Government, and Public Policy
Weidenbaum Center has received $120,000 from ExxonMobil since
1998.
- Heritage Foundation
Heritage Foundation has received $555,000 from ExxonMobil since
1998.
Koch Oil funding for Heritage Foundation = $1,952,000
Scaife Oil Fortune funding Heritage Foundation = $22,296,640
- Tech Central Science Foundation or Tech Central Station
Tech Central Station has received $95,000 from ExxonMobil since
1998.
Koch Oil funding for Tech Central Science Foundation = $25,000
- Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow
Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow has received $472,000 from
ExxonMobil since 1998.
Scaife Oil Fortune funding Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow
= $1,020,000
- World Climate Report (Greening Earth Society, a Western Fuels
Association project)
Michaels has received hundreds of thousands in industry funding
from the German Coal Mining Association, the Western Fuels Association
and Cyprus Minerals, a leading funder of the virulently
anti-environmental "Wise Use Movement" of the early 1990s. His
newsletter, "World Climate Report" , was funded by The Western Fuels
Association and sent free of charge to every member of the Society of
Environmental Journalists. Michaels is on the board of the Greening
Earth Society, a creation of The Western Fuels Association
Stinpo
2006-06-24 23:00:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Don't worry, soon you dumbfucks will collapse civilization, and it will
be the 10th century all over again.
There is a bright side to this if it happens. All the 'dumb fucks' will
die off because they won't have tele to tell them how to live/think/be.
john fernbach
2006-06-26 20:16:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Perhaps there is a connection. Perhaps you are a dumbfuck.
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
-----
Define "dumbfuck," please.

Clearly these people seem to be in denial of reality, at least as 1,500
climate scientists have defined reality.

But are we talking about a lack of IQ here, a lack of abstract
intelligence?

Or are we talking about a lack of EQ, emotional intelligence?

I.e., lack of emotional maturity in recognizing that we can't always
get what we want, and that reality sometimes has a way of frustrating
human hopes, and that the only sane response to this is to bend to
reality.

Or it may just be a case of Festinger's theory of "cognitive
dissonance" in action.

Festinger hypothesized that basically, it's painful for the individual
to hold two contrary ideas in his/her head at the same time, so long as
their logical conflict is recognized.
To reduce the pain caused by "cognitive dissonance," Festinger
believed, individuals may take all kinds of actions -- one possible one
being to change old ideas when new facts make them untenable.

But other strategies for reducing cognitive dissonance also are
possible - for example, just denying the new facts, or failing to note
the contradiction between the old beliefs and the new facts, or just
not paying attention to the evidence and deciding the whole controversy
is not worth bothering about.

My guess is that the "dumbfucks" on global climate mostly aren't so
dumb -- they're smart enough to know that they don't WANT global
climate change to be real. So their minds are racing as they try to
find ways to deny the facts, minimize the importance of the evidence,
etc. They're not "dumbfucks" so much as intellectually dishonest.
Psychopaths News Service
2006-06-27 01:16:01 UTC
Permalink
We realize that deaths by Weather of Mass Destruction (WMDs) does not
come fast enough and often enough for the true psychopaths, so we at
Psychopaths News Service strive to please our subscribers with fun
items about slaughters, mayhem and maiming to ease the boredom between
wholesale destructions.Today an Ultra-delicious treat: Dismemberments

Today's Special: Dismemberments

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-ford15jun15,1,4533812.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california
Trucker on Trial in Deaths of Four Called 'Monster' -- Wayne Adam Ford
killed prostitutes to fulfill his sexually sadistic needs, San
Bernardino County prosecutor says. Defense asks jurors to consider the
man's mental state. As he traveled across the state, long-haul trucker
Wayne Adam Ford combed dark roadways for vulnerable young women -
women desperate enough to climb into the cab of his truck and trade sex
for cash. Women, a prosecutor told jurors Wednesday, who might not be
missed. Four women did vanish in 1997 and 1998 after being picked up by
Ford, and their naked bodies - some of them dismembered - washed up
in aqueducts and other waterways.

http://www.ktsm.com/story_news.sstg?c=2240
Dismemberment Trial Continues -- Today a jury saw gruesome pictures and
of a man's dismembered body...and heard the graphic details of how it
was most likely done. --- Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - Former medical
examiner Dr. Corrine Stern went into great detail on how the
dismembered parts of Art Loustaunau's body were found. We can't show
you the pictures...but we can tell you the jury looked disgusted when
they saw them Stern says portions of Loustaunau's internal organs,
along with limbs and other parts of his body, were found in 6 black
plastic bags and one ziploc bag. In all 110 parts were stuffed inside
her freezer, and that became 111 parts when part of his chest was
recovered four days later. Stern says 3 gunshots were found in his
chest and underarm area, and that caused his death. She also says after
trying to reassemble the body, she discovered several organs were
missing -- as well as some soft tissue and skin.

http://www.wnbc.com/news/9414135/detail.html
Dismembered Body Found In Trash Bags In Brooklyn

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/5017680.stm
Dismembered body in boot is named -- Motorbike enthusiast Graham Raynor
lived in Taverham, Norfolk --A man whose dismembered body was found in
the boot of a car has been named. The torso and head of Graham Rayner,
64, of Taverham, Norwich, was found in a green Montego car stopped by
police on the A11 in Suffolk on Wednesday. The driver, 53, arrested on
suspicion of murder...

http://www.courttv.com/news/2006/0612/dismembered_ap.html
Teen son says he killed, dismembered mother at child molester's urging
- A teenager says he killed and slowly dismembered his mother over
several days at the urging of a 50-year-old man he says was sexually
abusing him.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/dismembered-aussies-accused-killer-goes-on-trial/2006/05/31/1148956418352.html
Aussie's accused killer on trial -- Janne Tuomela ... was arrested in
March after witnesses spotted him dumping plastic bags into a frozen
lake south of Stockholm. A Swedish man who has confessed to stabbing
and dismembering his Australian girlfriend went on trial for the murder
on Wednesday. Janne Tuomela, 31, was arrested in March after witnesses
spotted him dumping plastic bags into a frozen lake south of Stockholm.
Police later found the bags contained the dismembered body of Nina
Peltonen, who held Australian and Finnish citizenship but had lived
most of her life in Australia.

http://cbs13.com/local/local_story_171200742.html
Dismembered Body Linked To Daly City Man -- Accused murderer, Bobby
Tran, pleaded no contest to charges that he dismembered a 22-year-old
Chinese immigrant.

http://www.pottstownmercury.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16734757&BRD=1674&PAG=461&dept_id=18041&rfi=6
More details of murder, dismemberment revealed -- A Birdsboro man
charged with killing his younger brother and dismembering the body will
remain in prison since his preliminary hearing was postponed until a
later date on Friday.

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/news-story.php?story=191842
Judge sets $2 million bail for man accused of killing, dismembering his
father

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=4217449
Dismemberment Investigation Resumes Today -- An investigation resumes
today into the murder and dismemberment of a man in Northampton County.
Twenty-six-year-old Stephen Austin of Birdsboro is accused of
Thursday's slaying of 22-year-old Jonathan Austin at their mother's
home in Upper Mount Bethel Township. Police found the victim's severed
head and hands on Friday in his brother's vehicle.
john fernbach
2006-06-27 02:38:57 UTC
Permalink
Psychopaths News Service wrote, especially with regard to me (John
Post by Psychopaths News Service
We realize that deaths by Weather of Mass Destruction (WMDs) does not
come fast enough and often enough for the true psychopaths, so we at
Psychopaths News Service strive to please our subscribers with fun
items about slaughters, mayhem and maiming to ease the boredom between
wholesale destructions.Today an Ultra-delicious treat: Dismemberments
Today's Special: Dismemberments
(Various links to news items on murders and dismemberments follow -
llinks are omitted here to avoid pornographic appeal to potential
sadists, etc.)

*********************************
This is just attacking the messenger, isn't it? You don't like what I
wrote about something, so you accuse me of being a psychopath with a
morbid interest in dismemberment.

I suppose I should be offended or hurt or something -- but why?

What does this prove regarding the question of whether the climate is
changing as a result of fossil fuel use and methane emissions?
Nothing.

What does it prove regarding the point I was raising -- that global
warming denialists are probably not "dumbfucks," as someone else in the
previous message string was maintaining, but instead intellectually
dishonest?

Answer: it proves nothing.

"I dislike John Fernbach's arguments: THEREFORE I will paint him as a
psychopath.

This is pathetic, in terms of debate tactics. Totally irrelevant to
whatever was under discussion

Now do you want to get back to the question of global climate change?
Or do you want to fuck around with total non-sequiturs?
John
2006-06-27 03:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by john fernbach
Psychopaths News Service wrote, especially with regard to me (John
Post by Psychopaths News Service
We realize that deaths by Weather of Mass Destruction (WMDs) does not
come fast enough and often enough for the true psychopaths, so we at
Psychopaths News Service strive to please our subscribers with fun
items about slaughters, mayhem and maiming to ease the boredom
Dismemberments
Today's Special: Dismemberments
(Various links to news items on murders and dismemberments follow -
llinks are omitted here to avoid pornographic appeal to potential
sadists, etc.)
*********************************
This is just attacking the messenger, isn't it? You don't like what I
wrote about something, so you accuse me of being a psychopath with a
morbid interest in dismemberment.
I suppose I should be offended or hurt or something -- but why?
What does this prove regarding the question of whether the climate is
changing as a result of fossil fuel use and methane emissions?
Nothing.
What does it prove regarding the point I was raising -- that global
warming denialists are probably not "dumbfucks," as someone else in
the previous message string was maintaining, but instead
intellectually dishonest?
I think they are just dumb dumbfucks.
Psychopaths News Service
2006-06-27 04:07:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by john fernbach
Psychopaths News Service wrote, especially with regard to me (John
Post by Psychopaths News Service
We realize that deaths by Weather of Mass Destruction (WMDs) does not
come fast enough and often enough for the true psychopaths, so we at
Psychopaths News Service strive to please our subscribers with fun
items about slaughters, mayhem and maiming to ease the boredom between
wholesale destructions.Today an Ultra-delicious treat: Dismemberments
Today's Special: Dismemberments
(Various links to news items on murders and dismemberments follow -
llinks are omitted here to avoid pornographic appeal to potential
sadists, etc.)
*********************************
This is just attacking the messenger, isn't it? You don't like what I
wrote about something, so you accuse me of being a psychopath with a
morbid interest in dismemberment.
CORRECT ANSWER. YOU WON. But before announcing your prize, let us take
a moment to thank you for censoring the links to...
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-ford15jun15,1,4533812.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california
http://www.ktsm.com/story_news.sstg?c=2240
http://www.wnbc.com/news/9414135/detail.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/5017680.stm
http://www.courttv.com/news/2006/0612/dismembered_ap.html
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/dismembered-aussies-accused-killer-goes-on-trial/2006/05/31/1148956418352.html
http://cbs13.com/local/local_story_171200742.html
http://www.pottstownmercury.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16734757&BRD=1674&PAG=461&dept_id=18041&rfi=6
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/news-story.php?story=191842
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=4217449

We wouldn't want anybody going and reading the LA Times or watching ABC
local or visiting the BBC website and getting any 'funny ideas'.

It's citizens like you, protecting the two or three people who actually
read what you write from pornographic dismemberment fantasies which
helped the judging committee decide that you deserved first place in
our competition.
Post by john fernbach
I suppose I should be offended or hurt or something -- but why?
What does this prove regarding the question of whether the climate is
changing as a result of fossil fuel use and methane emissions?
Nothing.
What does it prove regarding the point I was raising -- that global
warming denialists are probably not "dumbfucks," as someone else in the
previous message string was maintaining, but instead intellectually
dishonest?
Answer: it proves nothing.
"I dislike John Fernbach's arguments: THEREFORE I will paint him as a
psychopath.
This is pathetic, in terms of debate tactics. Totally irrelevant to
whatever was under discussion
Now do you want to get back to the question of global climate change?
Or do you want to fuck around with total non-sequiturs?
The third option is: TA-DA... Bizarre Crimes and Events.


We realize that deaths by Weather of Mass Destruction (WMDs) does not
come fast enough and often enough for the true psychopaths, so we at
Psychopaths News Service strive to please our subscribers with fun
items about slaughters, mayhem and maiming to ease the boredom between
wholesale destructions.

Today's Special: Bizarre Crimes and Events.

Enjoy!

http://www.leamingtonspatoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=691&ArticleID=1567638
Man dies after bizarre crash -- Harbury Lane was the scene of a bizarre
incident this week involving a car crash and an apparent suicide.

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/nation/14840866.htm
After bizarre trial, wife convicted of slaying spouse -- MARTINEZ,
Calif. - A suburban housewife was convicted of stabbing to death her
millionaire psychotherapist husband, whom she had met as a 14-year-old
girl in treatment.

http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?pnpID=810&NewsID=728012&CategoryID=5845&show=localnews&om=1
Book explores bizarre Hricko murder

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/state/14895209.htm
Infamous "Railroad Killer" faces execution Tuesday

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=AY2326435S&news_headline=knife_nut_stabs_have-a-go_hero_to_death
Knife Nut Stabs Have-A-Go Hero To Death

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3710133a4560,00.html
Bizarre twin crashes kill doctors, police -- BEIJING: Twin traffic
accidents at the same spot killed seven people in far-west China on
Friday, including three doctors and two policemen who died in the
second while they were investigating the first, state media said.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/Local/newEAST02062406.htm
Man convicted again in bizarre sex case

http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=87042
Gun, pot, duct tape round out strange crime scene

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/14887378.htm
Warrant issued in bizarre break-in. A felony warrant has been issued
for a man suspected of being the naked intruder who attacked a Shawnee
woman in her apartment complex Saturday.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/429568p-362147c.html
Suspect dies after bizarre street rage -- A Manhattan ex-con pounded on
the window of an SUV, setting off a bizarre chain of events that ended
with him having a fatal seizure on the sidewalk while handcuffed,
police said.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060618/OPED0301/606180327/-1/OPED03
A bizarre late-night intrusion

http://nbc15.madison.com/news/headlines/3101946.html
Milwaukee Man Dies In Bizarre Accident -- Milwaukee police say a
46-year-old man punched through the his wife's bedroom window and
severed an artery in his upper arm. He later collapsed in the street
and bled to death about a half-block away.
The man was pronounced dead at the scene. Investigators say he was
violating a restraining order his estranged wife had filed against him.

http://www.middletownpress.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16815928&BRD=1645&PAG=461&dept_id=10856&rfi=6
Robbery has a bizarre twist

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=4296454
Bizarre burglary scene involved a getaway hearse and a chase -- Conroe
police are sorting out a rash of bizarre robberies at an apartment
complex, where a resident chased the suspected robber with a sword, all
while the robber was running to his getaway car, which was a hearse.
Roger Coppock
2006-06-18 05:32:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by george
Post by d***@dan.com
You can't address any of this, huh?
I'm waiting for the temperatures to get back up to what they were in
the 10th century.
Tell us then, George, "What do you think the temperatures
in the 10th century were?"
george
2006-06-18 20:48:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Coppock
Post by george
Post by d***@dan.com
You can't address any of this, huh?
I'm waiting for the temperatures to get back up to what they were in
the 10th century.
Tell us then, George, "What do you think the temperatures
in the 10th century were?"
It's not what I 'think' they were.
It's what they were..
Crops were being grown in Greenland!
http://academic.emporia.edu/aberjame/ice/lec19/holocene.htm
pay special attention to the 1000ad time line...
Thomas Lee Elifritz
2006-06-19 00:56:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by george
Post by Roger Coppock
Post by george
I'm waiting for the temperatures to get back up to what they were in
the 10th century.
Tell us then, George, "What do you think the temperatures
in the 10th century were?"
It's not what I 'think' they were.
It's what they were..
Crops were being grown in Greenland!
And dumbfucks are being raised in America ... today!

What we want to know, is your stupidity human nature, or nuture?

http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Roger Coppock
2006-06-19 03:21:49 UTC
Permalink
You have no idea of the temperatures in the 10th century,
YET you maintain that temperatures in the 10th century
were warmer that today's. How can a mind hold two such
contradictory views at the same time?
Post by george
Post by Roger Coppock
Post by george
Post by d***@dan.com
You can't address any of this, huh?
I'm waiting for the temperatures to get back up to what they were in
the 10th century.
Tell us then, George, "What do you think the temperatures
in the 10th century were?"
It's not what I 'think' they were.
It's what they were..
Crops were being grown in Greenland!
http://academic.emporia.edu/aberjame/ice/lec19/holocene.htm
pay special attention to the 1000ad time line...
Lloyd Parker
2006-06-19 11:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by george
Post by Roger Coppock
Post by george
Post by d***@dan.com
You can't address any of this, huh?
I'm waiting for the temperatures to get back up to what they were in
the 10th century.
Tell us then, George, "What do you think the temperatures
in the 10th century were?"
It's not what I 'think' they were.
It's what they were..
Crops were being grown in Greenland!
http://academic.emporia.edu/aberjame/ice/lec19/holocene.htm
pay special attention to the 1000ad time line...
Look up "global". Also see http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/
John
2006-06-18 01:10:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by Roger Coppock
Contrary to the incorrect titles of other posts here,
the global mean sea level is definitely rising,
=========================
Yeah, we know . Atlantis has been flodded by seawater for thousands
drove and caused global warming and the sea rising !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3227295.stm
Get help for your technical incompetence and for your delusions.
Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
2006-06-18 01:23:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by Roger Coppock
Contrary to the incorrect titles of other posts here,
the global mean sea level is definitely rising,
=========================
Yeah, we know . Atlantis has been flodded by seawater for thousands
drove and caused global warming and the sea rising !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3227295.stm
Get help for your technical incompetence and for your delusions.
=====================
YOu mean Global warming was not responsible for the sea rising and coverig
Atlantis? Gee, you should call the scientist and explain why the sea level
rose if it was not global warming. Al Gorons are blaming Global warming for
sea rising now .Are you callig those Goron's liars?
Another Guilty BUSH Family Felony Farkup
2006-06-18 01:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal wrote:

http://www.whitehouse.org/kids/jail.asp

Boys and Girls! Scared of what might happen if you get in trouble
with the police? Well don't be! Because ignoring boring laws written to
control poor people is not only a harmless rite of passage, it's a
sacred Bush family tradition. And just like the President himself, the
next generation of Bushes is already hard at work laying the foundation
for their meteoric rise to political superstardom! Here are some of
their awesome tips and ideas that you can try yourself!

Jebby Bush Sez: "Whassup little dudes and dudettes? Listen, the
main thing to remember when you're getting busted is that everything
will be way OK. So whether you're boning some horny slut in a mall
parking lot, or getting massively wasted and smacking cops around, it's
not like there will be any REAL consequences or anything. Oh, and if
the pig who's hassling you so much as touches you after you tell him
you're like, royalty, just have your old man call up the Attorney
General's office and make sure that donut-munching fuck gets totally
shit-canned!"

Jenna Bush Sez: "OMIGOD, like, policemen are so lame. One minute,
you're all like doing your own thing, like hanging with your friends
and sucking down ciggies and mad tasty beverages, and the next minute,
there's like some majorly ugly guy being all, 'Stop that!' Then you're
all, 'Whatever loser, my mom's only been letting me do this since I was
TEN!' And then he's all, 'You're in trouble! Come with me!' And then
you're all, 'Alright already!' And that's when you totally barf
strawberry margarita and burrito chunks right in his stupid
middle-classed face!"

Noelle Bush Sez: "Granddaddy started the War on Drugs - and
we're winning! Now speaking in my capacity as a 'little brown one', I
know what I'm talking about when I say how fairly we coloreds get
treated by the police every time they catch us with totally legal happy
pills that we buy in totally legal bulk from totally legal doctor
friends who'll do anything so long as our family puts caps on
malpractice suit payouts. As for advice, when you get sentenced to hard
time in luxury rehab - don't forget to mention how your uncle is King
of America, kids! Then they won't even DREAM of looking for the backup
stash at the end of your tampon string!"

Barbara Bush Sez: "My namesake, Grandma Bar, always said there are
two types of people: us and them! If you're one of "us", and you need
to fill the blank, sucking, empty space inside you with a hip flask of
Scotch before you can strip down at the Yale naked party - all you
have to do is commit a little white felony with your fake ID while your
hunky Secret Service agents wait outside in the armored SUV. And if you
get caught, don't worry. After all, everybody makes mistakes...again
and again and again and again! Of course, if you're "them"... sorry.
Maybe if you had spent more time improving yourself, you could have
afforded a better lawyer!"

George P. Bush Sez: "As a politician in training, the best advice
I can offer any aspiring young criminal - aside from 'always wear
enough Drakkar Noir to gas a whole Kurd village' - is to simply
change your name so it's the same as a recent President of the United
States. Once you do that, you're golden. Hell, you can even morph into
a violent stalker who terrorizes the families of girls who laughed at
the size of his little Mexi-Rican chorizo - and the police will let
you sail free. And if for some reason they don't, simply cut a
five-figure bribe check from your mega-phat trust fund account!"
John
2006-06-18 03:21:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by Roger Coppock
Contrary to the incorrect titles of other posts here,
the global mean sea level is definitely rising,
=========================
Yeah, we know . Atlantis has been flodded by seawater for thousands
drove and caused global warming and the sea rising !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3227295.stm
Get help for your technical incompetence and for your delusions.
=====================
YOu mean Global warming was not responsible for the sea rising and coverig
Atlantis? Gee, you should call the scientist and explain why
the sea level rose if it was not global warming. Al Gorons are
blaming Global warming for sea rising now .Are you callig those
Goron's liars?
I am calling you and the Bush/Cheney DUI team liars.
Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
2006-06-18 11:53:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by John
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by Roger Coppock
Contrary to the incorrect titles of other posts here,
the global mean sea level is definitely rising,
=========================
Yeah, we know . Atlantis has been flodded by seawater for thousands
drove and caused global warming and the sea rising !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3227295.stm
Get help for your technical incompetence and for your delusions.
=====================
YOu mean Global warming was not responsible for the sea rising and
coverig Atlantis? Gee, you should call the scientist and explain why
the sea level rose if it was not global warming. Al Gorons are
blaming Global warming for sea rising now .Are you callig those
Goron's liars?
I am calling you and the Bush/Cheney DUI team liars.
===================

COuldnt explain why Atlantis is covered under water can you , maggot?
Another Guilty BUSH Family Felony Farkup
2006-06-18 18:48:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
COuldnt explain why Atlantis is covered under water can you , maggot?
Another Guilty BUSH Family Felony Farkup

http://www.whitehouse.org/kids/jail.asp

Boys and Girls! Scared of what might happen if you get in trouble
with the police? Well don't be! Because ignoring boring laws written to
control poor people is not only a harmless rite of passage, it's a
sacred Bush family tradition. And just like the President himself, the
next generation of Bushes is already hard at work laying the foundation
for their meteoric rise to political superstardom! Here are some of
their awesome tips and ideas that you can try yourself!

Jebby Bush Sez: "Whassup little dudes and dudettes? Listen, the
main thing to remember when you're getting busted is that everything
will be way OK. So whether you're boning some horny slut in a mall
parking lot, or getting massively wasted and smacking cops around, it's
not like there will be any REAL consequences or anything. Oh, and if
the pig who's hassling you so much as touches you after you tell him
you're like, royalty, just have your old man call up the Attorney
General's office and make sure that donut-munching fuck gets totally
shit-canned!"

Jenna Bush Sez: "OMIGOD, like, policemen are so lame. One minute,
you're all like doing your own thing, like hanging with your friends
and sucking down ciggies and mad tasty beverages, and the next minute,
there's like some majorly ugly guy being all, 'Stop that!' Then you're
all, 'Whatever loser, my mom's only been letting me do this since I was
TEN!' And then he's all, 'You're in trouble! Come with me!' And then
you're all, 'Alright already!' And that's when you totally barf
strawberry margarita and burrito chunks right in his stupid
middle-classed face!"

Noelle Bush Sez: "Granddaddy started the War on Drugs - and
we're winning! Now speaking in my capacity as a 'little brown one', I
know what I'm talking about when I say how fairly we coloreds get
treated by the police every time they catch us with totally legal happy
pills that we buy in totally legal bulk from totally legal doctor
friends who'll do anything so long as our family puts caps on
malpractice suit payouts. As for advice, when you get sentenced to hard
time in luxury rehab - don't forget to mention how your uncle is King
of America, kids! Then they won't even DREAM of looking for the backup
stash at the end of your tampon string!"

Barbara Bush Sez: "My namesake, Grandma Bar, always said there are
two types of people: us and them! If you're one of "us", and you need
to fill the blank, sucking, empty space inside you with a hip flask of
Scotch before you can strip down at the Yale naked party - all you
have to do is commit a little white felony with your fake ID while your
hunky Secret Service agents wait outside in the armored SUV. And if you
get caught, don't worry. After all, everybody makes mistakes...again
and again and again and again! Of course, if you're "them"... sorry.
Maybe if you had spent more time improving yourself, you could have
afforded a better lawyer!"

George P. Bush Sez: "As a politician in training, the best advice
I can offer any aspiring young criminal - aside from 'always wear
enough Drakkar Noir to gas a whole Kurd village' - is to simply
change your name so it's the same as a recent President of the United
States. Once you do that, you're golden. Hell, you can even morph into
a violent stalker who terrorizes the families of girls who laughed at
the size of his little Mexi-Rican chorizo - and the police will let
you sail free. And if for some reason they don't, simply cut a
five-figure bribe check from your mega-phat trust fund account!"
REPIGS Bloodthirsty Eternal Wars Spawned From Lies
2006-06-19 03:03:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
YOu mean Global warming was not responsible for the sea rising and coverig
Atlantis?
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Nukes.html
SUN MYUNG MOON gave North Korea NUKE DELIVERY SYSTEMS in 1994.

Sun Myung Moon's Japanese Toen Trading company delivered 12 Russian
Golf missile submarines with launch tubes intact. The North Korean
communists studied this technology and adapted their missiles to be sea
launched from surface and submarine platforms. North Korea now has
nuclear weapon strike capability which can reach the continental United
States from sea-based mobile launch facilities at distances of 2,500
miles. This website has clickable links to Sun Myung Moon subversion
sources, documentation, proof. http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Nukes.html

LINKS -- NK sea-missile capability: http://www.navyseals.com
http://www.janes.com http://www.reuters.co.uk http://news.bbc.co.uk
http://www.washingtontimes.com http://www.newscientist.com
http://www.townhall.com http://www.freerepublic.com
http://www.libertyforum.org http://www.theage.com.au http://www.iht.com
http://www.latimes.com

LINKS -- North Korean-born Sun Myung Moon's Toen Trading Submarine
Subversion: http://www.freerepublic.com http://www.usasurvival.org
http://www.gorenfeld.net http://www.davidicke.net
http://blog.mmadsen.org http://www.kenlayne.com http://www.pandagon.net
http://jameswagner.com http://functionalambivalent.typepad.com
http://www.la-mancha.net http://windsofchange.net
http://thoughtcrimes.org http://www.vuw.ac.nz


Sun Myung Moon owns the Washington Times newspaper, and he owns the UPI
(United Press International) wireservice. He controls the main
Washington DC conservative propaganda mill. The Washington Times has
been subsidized by over a billion dollars of moonie slave labor. Every
time that a republican politician quotes the Washington Times, or
writes an article or op-ed in it, Sun Myung Moon is made larger in his
brainwashed follower's eyes. Conservatives are so desperate for
propaganda for their agenda that they willingly aid and abet Sun Myung
Moon's organized crime activities in exchange for the help his
organized crime front operations deliver to them.


Sun Myung Moon has paid ex-presidents, such as George Herbert Walker
Bush up to $10,000,000 for photo-op and endorsements, because his
virtually captive followers have very restricted access to news. They
are told that everybody Moon shakes hands with has accepted Moon as
their lord and savior. This global slave labor force replenishes a $10
million expense for faked stage setting photo-op in a couple of days.

LINKS about Moonies, Bush, Washinton Times connections:
The Moonies: Everything you wanted to know about Sun Myung Moon and the
Unification Church
Moonie and Related Links

* The Right Wing Media Conspiracy - How the Moonies and right wing
groups control the media
* Moonies and the Washington Times - The mouthpiece of Sun Myung
Moon
* Is George Bush a Moonie? - Bush takes $100,000 to endorse the
Moonies
* Inside Look at the Moonies - Great article I snagged
* Moonie Front Organizations - 1000 organization that are Moonie
fronts
* Consortium News - Very good articles about Moonies and other
right wingers
* Bush and Moon - US CIA and Korean CIA?? GHW Bush Praises Sun
Myung Moon as 'Man of Vision'
* Sun Myung Moon - "the Savior, Messiah and King of Kings of all of
humanity"
* The Bush-Kim-Moon Triangle of Money - the political largesse of
Sun Myung Moon.


Sun Myung Moon crowned as Second Coming in DC

The news of a very strange event that occurred at the end of March, but
was quietly swept under the carpet by the mainstream media, is just now
beginning to leak out. Expect to hear more about it in the coming days.
Here's a preview on what surely must be one of the most bizarre
happenings in the long history of Congressional oddities...

It occurred on March 23, 2004 when Reverend Sun Myung Moon, cultist
leader of the Unification Church (currently known as The Family
Federation for World Peace and Unification), was crowned "King of
Peace" in a coronation ceremony. In his coronation speech, Moon told
the audience that it was now time to officially recognize him as the
returned Messiah.

LINKS:
Moon Crowned in the Capital, [Unification Church] Sun Myung Moon
Crowned 'King Of America' At U.S. Senate Building, Hail to the Moon
king, Moon Over Washington, Sun Myung Moon Crowned Messiah By
Congressmen, Sun Myung Moon crowned as Messiah by U.S. Senate! Moonie
leader 'crowned' in Senate, Sun Myung Moon Crowned Messiah! U.S.
Lawmakers Crown rev. Sun Myung Moon Messiah! Here's a guy the
Republicans don't want us to know about. (Actually, it was a democrat
conservative, to the great relief of republican conservatives, who
placed the crown on Moon, in this hoax ceremony. In Moon's world he
replaces all governments with his Taliban, so Republicans and Democrats
all will be liquidated.


The quaint mass marriage ceremonies of the Moonies has another
significance: these represent thousands upon thousand upon thousands of
members of an organized crime empire, as dedicated as body-bomb suicide
muslims, to the eccentric whims of this visibly insane man. Moonies
surreptitiously swell rallies for rightwing causes, clog the internet
forums with their unshakable propaganda-mongering which cannot be
reasoned with, vote as a block and move across state lines to do it.
They even move across international boundaries to meddle in politics.



Moonies also collaborate with other organized crime rings for mutal
profit.
Lloyd Parker
2006-06-19 11:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by John
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
Post by Roger Coppock
Contrary to the incorrect titles of other posts here,
the global mean sea level is definitely rising,
=========================
Yeah, we know . Atlantis has been flodded by seawater for thousands
drove and caused global warming and the sea rising !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3227295.stm
Get help for your technical incompetence and for your delusions.
=====================
YOu mean Global warming was not responsible for the sea rising and coverig
Atlantis? Gee, you should call the scientist and explain why the sea level
rose if it was not global warming. Al Gorons are blaming Global warming for
sea rising now .Are you callig those Goron's liars?
Another idiot flaunting his idiocy. Your "reasoning" is like asking how did
people kill people before guns were around?
Roedy Green
2006-06-26 18:02:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Another Guilty DUI Kennedy Criminal
YOu mean Global warming was not responsible for the sea rising and coverig
Atlantis? Gee, you should call the scientist and explain why the sea level
rose if it was not global warming. Al Gorons are blaming Global warming for
sea rising now .Are you callig those Goron's liars?
If you are curious about what the "Gorons" say, take in the movie An
Inconvenient Truth. Then you would not look like such a ninny having
to make stuff up.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green, http://mindprod.com
"It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory."
~ W. Edwards Deming
rapace33
2006-06-19 16:37:38 UTC
Permalink
Woul you please forward this article this Lady which claims that Global
Warming is an illusion.
***@sfchronicle.com
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601060403,00.html

Rapace33
Post by Roger Coppock
Contrary to the incorrect titles of other posts here,
the global mean sea level is definitely rising,
http://sealevel.colorado.edu/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Recent_Sea_Level_Rise.png
There are enough other indications of a warming globe
to easily conclude that global warming is a fact, not a
conspiracy.
http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/Global%20Mean%20Temp.jpg
http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/Angell-Balloon.jpg
The satellite record, in all its current interpretations, shows
The URL below is one of the more conservative records from the
University of Alabama at Huntsville.
http://members.cox.net/rcoppock/UAH-MSU.jpg
http://nsidc.org/news/press/20050928_trendscontinue.html
http://nsidc.org/sotc/glacier_balance.html
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/pollack.html
=-=-=-=
Also, the it is very well established that mankind is the
2) Over the last 28 years direct, not proxy, measurement of the
sun's output has shown no long term growth, so something else
http://www.pmodwrc.ch/pmod.php?topic=tsi/composite/SolarConstant
3) There are many other things that cause climate change.
Below, please find a graph of several of them. Note that
the green line, representing man-made greenhouse gas
emissions easily dominate all other potential causes of the
observed warming today and that they are growing the fastest.
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/data/simodel/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Climate_Change_Attribution.png
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-3.htm
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/crowley.html
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/gcmoutput/crowley2000/forc-total-4_12_01.txt
Orator
2006-06-23 09:24:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by rapace33
Woul you please forward this article this Lady which claims that Global
Warming is an illusion.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601060403,00.html
A good looking chick in that page......

It rather depends on the time line this "global warming" is related to. I
can say that we suffered the coldest day since records have been kept nearly
a week ago. Does that infer global cooling perhaps?

See this:
http://oratorium.bigblog.com.au/blog.do
Thomas Lee Elifritz
2006-06-23 13:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orator
Post by rapace33
Woul you please forward this article this Lady which claims that Global
Warming is an illusion.
Wow, dumbfucks are everywhere!
Post by Orator
A good looking chick in that page......
Cuz yer a dumbfuck?
Post by Orator
It rather depends on the time line this "global warming" is related to. I
can say that we suffered the coldest day since records have been kept nearly
a week ago. Does that infer global cooling perhaps?
Sure, for a dumbfuck like you, that's reasonable.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Orator
2006-06-25 05:14:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by Orator
Post by rapace33
Woul you please forward this article this Lady which claims that Global
Warming is an illusion.
Wow, dumbfucks are everywhere!
....and now we know who that is too!
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by Orator
A good looking chick in that page......
Cuz yer a dumbfuck?
Post by Orator
It rather depends on the time line this "global warming" is related to. I
can say that we suffered the coldest day since records have been kept nearly
a week ago. Does that infer global cooling perhaps?
Sure, for a dumbfuck like you, that's reasonable.
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Hey Fritz, why do you need to edit a message to show it to be something it
is not? Is that the very best you can do?
Thomas Lee Elifritz
2006-06-25 15:35:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orator
Is that the very best you can do?
Feel free to enlighten us with your dumbfuck crackpot theories.

If there is some actual significance, I may actually comment.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Orator
2006-06-26 07:07:30 UTC
Permalink
--
http://oratorium.bigblog.com.au/blog.do
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by Orator
Is that the very best you can do?
Feel free to enlighten us with your dumbfuck crackpot theories.
If there is some actual significance, I may actually comment.
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Please don't bother, there is more to life than pandering to you
potty-mouths. Besides, I will not see it anyway. You are a persona non grata
from now on.
Thomas Lee Elifritz
2006-06-26 07:06:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orator
Post by Thomas Lee Elifritz
Post by Orator
Is that the very best you can do?
Feel free to enlighten us with your dumbfuck crackpot theories.
If there is some actual significance, I may actually comment.
Please don't bother, there is more to life than pandering to you
potty-mouths. Besides, I will not see it anyway. You are a persona non grata
from now on.
You shit on our planet, but you have a problem with my speech.

I just needed to get that straight. Thanks!

http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Roedy Green
2006-06-26 18:02:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orator
It rather depends on the time line this "global warming" is related to. I
can say that we suffered the coldest day since records have been kept nearly
a week ago. Does that infer global cooling perhaps?
That is a very basic question which indicates you have not watched a
single video or read a single book about climate change. Do that
first before you shoot your mouth off. Metaphorically speaking, your
penis is hanging out your fly.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green, http://mindprod.com
"It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory."
~ W. Edwards Deming
Orator
2006-06-28 00:24:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roedy Green
Post by Orator
It rather depends on the time line this "global warming" is related to. I
can say that we suffered the coldest day since records have been kept nearly
a week ago. Does that infer global cooling perhaps?
That is a very basic question which indicates you have not watched a
single video or read a single book about climate change. Do that
first before you shoot your mouth off. Metaphorically speaking, your
penis is hanging out your fly.
Or if viewed in another way - you have aquired a particular "religion" that
you merely "believe" and that is why you refer to your "religious texts" and
as a result have nothing to say on the subject and resort to sexual
fantasies instead. Whatever turns you on buddy.

------
http://oratorium.bigblog.com.au/blog.do
---------------------------------------.
Thomas Lee Elifritz
2006-06-28 00:24:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orator
Post by Roedy Green
Post by Orator
It rather depends on the time line this "global warming" is related to. I
can say that we suffered the coldest day since records have been kept
nearly
Post by Roedy Green
Post by Orator
a week ago. Does that infer global cooling perhaps?
That is a very basic question which indicates you have not watched a
single video or read a single book about climate change. Do that
first before you shoot your mouth off. Metaphorically speaking, your
penis is hanging out your fly.
Or if viewed in another way - you have aquired a particular "religion" that
you merely "believe" and that is why you refer to your "religious texts" and
as a result have nothing to say on the subject and resort to sexual
fantasies instead. Whatever turns you on buddy.
Yes, everyone should believe your anti-science dumbfuck dogma.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Pharoah
2006-06-28 06:29:34 UTC
Permalink
if there is a god then global warming or cooling or whatever are gods
will and there is not a damn thing we can do

if there is no god then it really does not matter a damn what happens

face it, you are going to die anyway, so why care about what might or
might not happen after you are gone. ??

global warming is irrelevant

No one has yet proven that the hole in the ozone layer was not there in
the last century
Rove DID Leak CIA Agent's Identity
2006-06-28 06:42:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pharoah
if there is a god then global warming or cooling or whatever are gods
will and there is not a damn thing we can do
if there is no god then it really does not matter a damn what happens
face it, you are going to die anyway, so why care about what might or
might not happen after you are gone. ??
global warming is irrelevant
No one has yet proven that the hole in the ozone layer was not there in
the last century
YOU ARE CORRECT. That is the only true answer for psychopaths. You have
WON a FREE SUBSCRIPTION TO PSYCHOPATH NEWS SERVICE to follow you
everwhere you go.

We realize that deaths by Weather of Mass Destruction (WMDs) does not
come fast enough and often enough for the true psychopaths, so we at
Psychopaths News Service strive to please our subscribers with fun
items about slaughters, mayhem and maiming to ease the boredom between
wholesale destructions. WMDs are Global-Scale Mass Murders, so
fans of WMDs, today a special delicious treat:

Today's Special: Hands-On Multiple Homicides

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2006/06/05/1614913-sun.html
Possible break in multiple killings -- Niagara cops plan announcement
in decade-long case - Police in southern Ontario investigating the
slayings of five women were set to make a "major announcement" today,
fuelling more speculation the murders were the work of a serial killer.


http://sun.yumasun.com/artman/publish/articles/story_25032.php
Investigation still open in six 2005 murders -- Yuma Police Lt. John
Lekan talks to a Sun reporter Thursday afternoon concerning six
homicides that occurred in a Yuma neighborhood one year ago. It's like
a jigsaw puzzle that doesn't want to fit together. That's the way Yuma
Police Department investigators describe the yearlong investigation
into the killings of six people including four children in a Yuma home.

http://www.newswire.co.nz/Main/ViewStory.aspx?storyid=322762&catid=0
Police Indicate Belief Info Held Back In Twin Homicide Inquiry --
Police investigating the deaths of baby twins in south Auckland have
indicated they believe someone in the extended family is holding back
crucial information. A double homicide inquiry is underway after
three-month-olds Cru and Chris Kahui died in Starship children's
hospital over the weekend.

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060618/lead/lead1.html
COP KILLINGS RISE - Repeat offenders causing concern -- HUMAN RIGHTS
activists have raised an alarm over a spike in the number of civilian
killings by the police even as the incidence of murder is showing a
downward trend for this year. Additionally, the activists have pointed
to a handful of policemen who are repeatedly involved in similar
controversial incidents. As many as 80 people have been killed by the
police this year and last month alone there were 23 controversial
police shootings. Since 1999, police activities brought to the Bureau
of Special Investigation (BSI) for investigation have increased by some
427 cases, moving from 89 in 1999 to over 516 last year. In total there
have been over 2,400 incidents brought to the bureau for probe from
within the Jamaica Constabulary Force with a complement of about 8,000.
123 OFFICERS CHARGED

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=state&id=4304658
Resendiz's 15 known victims

http://www.whas11.com/news/local/stories/062306cckrWhasMurders.b5e7f40c.html
Suspect now charged with two counts of murder -- Police have charged a
single man with two different murders within two weeks of each other
Friday. Now police say they have unraveled the connections between five
men and three different deaths.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0B14FA3A550C748DDDAF0894DE404482
Newark Police Director Frustrated by Killing of 2nd Potential Witness
-The director of the Newark police said on Friday that a man killed in
a drive-by shooting early Thursday was the second witness in a
multiple-homicide case to be murdered, and he expressed frustration at
what he said was the slow pace of the prosecution.

http://www.thedailyitemoflynn.com/news/view.bg?articleid=12422
Bloodbath in Peabody: Man shoots, kills sister, father and then himself

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/062006/06252006/201809
New lead in Warner case? -- Man accused of murders in Richmond may be
responsible for the death of a Culpeper woman.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20060615-0100-ca-truckerkillings.html
Defense cites remorse, surrender in Calif. serial murders trial -- The
defense was to resume closing arguments Thursday in the trial of a
former truck driver charged with killing four women in California
before walking into a sheriff's station with a victim's body part in
his pocket.
Pharoah
2006-06-28 07:27:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rove DID Leak CIA Agent's Identity
Post by Pharoah
if there is a god then global warming or cooling or whatever are gods
will and there is not a damn thing we can do
if there is no god then it really does not matter a damn what happens
face it, you are going to die anyway, so why care about what might or
might not happen after you are gone. ??
global warming is irrelevant
No one has yet proven that the hole in the ozone layer was not there in
the last century
YOU ARE CORRECT. That is the only true answer for psychopaths. You have
WON a FREE SUBSCRIPTION TO PSYCHOPATH NEWS SERVICE to follow you
everwhere you go.
I am so glad to win something, ...... anything
john fernbach
2006-06-29 03:31:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pharoah
I am so glad to win something, ...... anything
-----------------------
Maybe I'm falling for a con, Pharoah, but you sound rather wistful and
sad.

You might find that life will reward you with more prizes if you
connect your life to the service of something bigger than your own
individual ego, your own individual bag of skin.

The Anglo-American writer on Zen Buddhism, Alan Watt -- a big hero
among some of the hippies in the 1960s -- has made a case for a
mystical sense of oneship in his book "The Book: On the Tabu Against
Knowing Who You Are," and also in some of his writings on Hinduism and
Buddhism.

What Watts would say is that if you identify yourself as a lone
individual, cut off from the rest of creation -- nature, nation,
family, humanity, religion, culture etc etc. -- by your own individual
ego and your own small bag of skin, you're bound to be depressed and at
war with almost everything. It's saner and happier, and actually it
makes some ecological and methaphysical sense, to recognize your
interconnections and your interdepencence with the rest of the
universe. When you identify yourself not just with your own individual
ego, but also with the human species at it's struggled to survive, and
with the evolving natural world that supports the human family -- you
recognize that you've already "WON" something -- a lot!

Not you individually, maybe. But your family, your culture, your
nation, your species and the evolving life force of which you are part
all have received incredible benefits from the sun and the geology over
the eons, and have achieved amazing things in terms of sheer survival.
Even if you're broke, friendless and in disgrace with human society,
you're a small part of the collective that's achieved all those great
things and been blessed with all of those benefits. And if you act on
this insight, somehow -- doesn't have to be through Green politics; it
could be other things you identify with -- you may find that life
improves.

The Christian Jesus, as portrayed in the accepted Gospels, is not
everyone's cup of tea. Some non-Christians despiset the man's memory,
and maybe they're right. But I think Jesus said something interesting
when he is supposed to have said in one passage, "I have come to bring
you life, and life abundantly." And yet he is supposed to have said in
another passage, "He who seeks to save his life will lose it, and he
who seeks to lose his life for my sake will find it."

Forget about the "for my sake" for a second; forget about the obvious
invocation to Christian martrydom, which looks a little suspicious in
the wake of the 9-11 attacks.

Alan Watts, the neo-buddhist, would say that when you "lose your life,"
that is, when you lose your sense of being ONLY the individual ego and
ONLY a bag of skin that's at war with all creation, you in fact gain
"life abundantly," because you open yourself up to a whole panoply of
daily miracles that take place outside your skin.

If you reject Jesus and Alan Watt's sense of Buddhist/Hindu
enlightenment, however, there's an atheist and fairly pessimistic route
to the same sense of abundance that's been sketched out by Jean Paul
Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir, two left-leaning Existentialist writers
of the 1940s.

What Sartre and de Beauvoir taught, at least in part, is that human
existence in fact is "absurd," painful, and potentially meaningless.
But if you recognize that and can accept it, and if you accept that you
make all of the important choices in yuor life "absurdly," with
inadequate information and inadequate wisdom -- well, you make generate
joy and a sense of "authentic" selfhood out of the absurdity

How? By making an absurd moral choice about the goals you intend to
seek in the world, the "Project" you intend to set for yourself. And
then you need to be true to that absurdly chosen Project, and shape
your life around its demands. You'll never be entirely sure that it
was the "right" choice you made, obviously - because in an absurd
universe where none of us is smart enough or informed enough, who can
ever be sure that they're absolutely right?

But you can say with some satisfaction that you're been true to your
Project, faithful to the choices you made -- with the added proviso
that you need to be as honest as you can about the basis for them, and
not simply forge ahead with a mistaken choice in the face of clear
evidence that it's wrong.

What you WIN from the acceptance of existential despair and the making
of "absurd" existential choices is not necessarily a sense of oneness
and blessedness stemming from your relation to the cosmos. But you WIN
a sense of individual integrity, of having made your choice, as best
you can, in FREEDOM, and then of having the integrity and the toughness
to stick with it afterwards.

I can say from experience that there's real joy and satisfaction to be
had from sort of combining Alan Watt's sense of oneness with the
universe with Sartre's sense of taking a moral stand in a somewhat
scary universe and an imperfect society and then trying to be true to
that stand.

There is no guarantee that you don't end up a fool and an asshole when
you embrace these two concepts -- I'm sure there are a lot of people in
this newsgroup who think of me as a fool and an asshole, for example.

But there's great satisfaction in identifying at least one or two
things that you think will be good to do, at least according to your
lights, and then dedicating some time and energy to them, and in making
sure that the things you choose are bigger and more important than you
are yourself.

If you're as woeful as you sound, you might try this. Whether or not
you end up being on what I think is the correct side on Global Climate
Change.

Whatever your poltiics and your ecological sensibility turn out to be,
if you can identify something that isn't simply selfish, that you think
is important to do, and if you can then do it, you WIN a sense of
having become a worthwhile person, somebody that you yourself can
respect -- a least a little bit. It's much more satisfying than saying
"eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we shall die."
Pharoah
2006-06-29 08:20:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orator
Post by Pharoah
I am so glad to win something, ...... anything
-----------------------
Maybe I'm falling for a con, Pharoah, but you sound rather wistful and
sad.
Perhaps you are falling for a con, but your writing is interesting.
Let me say more.
------------------------
Post by Orator
The Anglo-American writer on Zen Buddhism, Alan Watt -- a big hero
among some of the hippies in the 1960s -- has made a case for a
mystical sense of oneship in his book "The Book: On the Tabu Against
Knowing Who You Are," and also in some of his writings on Hinduism and
Buddhism.
You sound like a christian, I may be wrong. Can I ask if you feel sense
of connection with Jesus or God and if so what does it feel like to
you. One person I discussed religion with in another group said, in a
rather long posting in answer to just the same question, that it felt
....
<quote>
Like a baby must feel in it's mothers arms.
<end quote>

Other Xtians say much the same thing though not as poetically. I have
also noticed that Zen Meditation provides a similar feeling and I note
from Heroin addicts that they say that being on heroin provides a very
similar feeling of all being right with the world.
why are they all the same?
The answer is in your brain....not your view of the world

I say Happiness comes from within. Outside influences disturb it. You
know, the majority of people live petty dull lives and bicker and
quibble over trivial issues because they seek happiness in the world
around them, and the world around us all is selfish and doesnt care.
Post by Orator
What Watts would say is that if you identify yourself as a lone
individual, cut off from the rest of creation -- nature, nation,
family, humanity, religion, culture etc etc. -- by your own individual
ego and your own small bag of skin, you're bound to be depressed and at
war with almost everything. It's saner and happier, and actually it
makes some ecological and methaphysical sense, to recognize your
interconnections and your interdepencence with the rest of the
universe.
The opposite of paranoid is Pronoid. The world does not care. Fall on
hard times and the world will abandon you, get rich and the world will
love you. Happiness comes from within.

When you identify yourself not just with your own individual
Post by Orator
ego, but also with the human species at it's struggled to survive, and
with the evolving natural world that supports the human family -- you
recognize that you've already "WON" something -- a lot!
The Natural world is not capable of supporting 6 billion human beings
in the style to which we would all like to be accustomed.

Your Human family ?????
I bet you do not recognise how many people are working to support you.
The garbage man
The people who work at the dams and filtration and pumping stations
that let you have runing tap water
The people at the power companies who burn coal or oil or run nuclear
reactiors to generate electricity that they give to the people who
maintain the power lines that bring the electricity to your home so
that you can have HOT running tap water
When did you last thank the men and women who drive the trucks that
deliver food to the supermarket so the people in the supermarket can
stock the shelves so that you can eat tonight.
And lets not forget the farmers who grow the food, whether vegetable or
animal,
what about the people who work in the factories that make the clothes
you wear, the car you drive, the computer you now read this on....did
You send them a christmass card? when are their birthdays? Ha ! you
have no idea even what their names are
The police who will arrest a person who does wrong to you
the lawyers who will argue in your favour
the insurance agents who will pay you compensation (maybee)
the judges, the nurses and doctors who are waiting in hospitals to help
if you get sick or are injured
the people who make TV programs for your entertainment, writers,
actors, cameramen, stuntmen, the secretaries, the people in the canteen
who feed them and make the coffee

yes,. all these and many many more. It is a much wider world than even
you recognise. When did you last think of how much you owe to the
mena nd women who drive street sweepers keeping leaves and garbage from
clogging up the drains near your home?

(Put another way, if there was no crime at all. ??
How many police, forensic scientists, lawyers, jail wardens, parole
officers, judges, social workers, security guards, insurance workers,
.....would sudenly be unemployed??

You know what they say, dont wish too hard for what you want because
you just might get it.
No good deed goes unpunished)


Now think, if you could grow your own food, build your own house and
settle your own arguments and look after yourself if you are injured,
as people did a few thousand years ago you would not need all these
people

MY POINT BEING........THE BIGGEST CONSPIRACY OF ALL IS THAT OF HIDING
THE FACT THAT THERE ARE JUST TOOOOOOOO MANY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.

It isnt a question of finding alternative eco friendly power supplies,
it is a question of matching the supply the earth has with the demands
that we make of it. and in the future the demands will be greater.
Post by Orator
And if you act on
this insight, somehow -- doesn't have to be through Green politics; it
could be other things you identify with -- you may find that life
improves.
Life will not improve if we continue popping out babies all over the
globe.

Think of the starving in Africa, we have been supplying them with aid
for how long. What would have happened if we had never have given them
any aid.
Well for one thing we would not be hearing any stories at all of how
the big charity organisations rake off a huge percentage before they
distribute the aid. If there was a solution to the starving people of
third world countries the charities would fight it as it would not be
in their interests. Charities need the poor.

for another, a lot of people would have died, yes died, of starvation,
of malnutrition, of wars over food and shelter. Africa would have been
a worse bloodbath than it is now, but the reason it is as bad now as
parts of it are is simply because we kept a generation alive long
enough to reproduce.

OK, now think of this, when global population reaches that point where
the supply of food and shelter and air and resources do not meet the
demand the whole world will be in the state of the starving people of
africa......................where will the aid come from then.

That my friend is the truth, we are heading for population burnout, not
a shortage of oil, not global warming, not oil spills on the
beaches........population burnout.

The chinese at least have laws to limit the number of babies. The rest
of the world should sit up and take note.

Who really needs cloning, who really needs a longer life span......no
my friend, you do not need to live till you are 100 you do not need to
live forever. All biology demands is that you live long enough to
reproduce.

How many nursing homes for the aged have you been through. Sure its
nice to know your Gramps is looked after and a nurse keeps his morphine
topped up, but thats not for his health, its for their income.
Post by Orator
The Christian Jesus, as portrayed in the accepted Gospels, is not
everyone's cup of tea. Some non-Christians despiset the man's memory,
and maybe they're right. But I think Jesus said something interesting
when he is supposed to have said in one passage, "I have come to bring
you life, and life abundantly." And yet he is supposed to have said in
another passage, "He who seeks to save his life will lose it, and he
who seeks to lose his life for my sake will find it."
mathew 21: 18 to 20 KIng james version
tell me, did jesus pay compensation to the man whose fig tree he
killed?

And why is this a variation on a buddhist story in which the Buddha
meditated under a fig tree all night, and in the morning there were 2
fig trees. Both then gave a lecture on how what we believe creates our
reality.

Jesus was a man, who looked for meaning, he found at least some of his
meaning in buddhist thought which he got from the Greeks. Alexander the
Great fought his way to india 300 years before christ and Greek thought
influence buddhism and buddhism influenced greek thought.

No, jesus did not need to go to india to find buddhism, he got iot from
the greeks in asia minor and Xtianity grew strongest first of all in
Greek colonies of asia minor because the thoughts were familiar, alas,
time and the propagandists of Constantine have distorted the true
picture.
Post by Orator
Forget about the "for my sake" for a second; forget about the obvious
invocation to Christian martrydom, which looks a little suspicious in
the wake of the 9-11 attacks.
When spain was under Moorish rule Xtians, who fell for the myth that "
he who shall lose his life in my name shall find eternal life in
heaven" made suicidal raids into mosques.

The suicide raid, whether with fists, sword, gun, bomb or jet airliner
is a Xtian invention just as scalping was a white invention which the
Indians or native americans what ever term you like, adopted in
revenge.
Post by Orator
You'll never be entirely sure that it
was the "right" choice you made, obviously - because in an absurd
universe where none of us is smart enough or informed enough, who can
ever be sure that they're absolutely right?
I am being true to myself. We all are all of the time, we can be
nothing other than what we are in the same way that a pencil can only
be a pencil, never a teapot.
Post by Orator
What you WIN from the acceptance of existential despair and the making
of "absurd" existential choices is not necessarily a sense of oneness
and blessedness stemming from your relation to the cosmos. But you WIN
a sense of individual integrity, of having made your choice, as best
you can, in FREEDOM, and then of having the integrity and the toughness
to stick with it afterwards.
I sense that I have the freedom to say what I wish to say in this
group..

ARE YOU TELLING ME WHAT TO SAY AND THINK! ??
Post by Orator
Whatever your poltiics and your ecological sensibility turn out to be,
if you can identify something that isn't simply selfish, that you think
is important to do, and if you can then do it, you WIN a sense of
having become a worthwhile person, somebody that you yourself can
respect -- a least a little bit. It's much more satisfying than saying
"eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we shall die."
Tollerance is a great thing to have.
You know, when you can hear the cynical, the pessimistic, the
downhearted, the sad, the miserable, the depressed, ....and you can
allow them to be cynical, pessimistic, downhearted, sad, miserable and
depressed, .....without trying to change them, then you are truly
tollerant. It is their life, and only they have the right to change it

If you feel you need to cheer them up, lift their spirits, raise their
morale.....
..............then .............
You have the right to be dissapointed.
john fernbach
2006-06-29 22:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Pharoah - I partly agree with what you've written, partly disagree.

1. Agree population growth is a BIG environmental issue/problem.
Agree it should not continue for much longer - and can't continue for
much longer.

2. Think the Chinese one-child family law is basically a good idea, at
least for China.

3. Strongly disagree that population growth ALONE is bringing on
ecological crisis, climate change, etc. Capitalist industrial growth
also is a huge factor here (socialist industrial growth, too, in places
where socialism still exists). And bad technological choices are a
third factor.

You probably have seen Dr. Paul Ehrlich's rough equation that accounts
for pollution, other destruction impacts on the environment.

I = PAT

where I is the impact,
P is the population size,
A is a messure of affluence, a measure of how high a standard of living
the average individual enjoys, and
T is a technological factor -- measure of how dirty and destructive the
technologies are that are used o produce the standard of living.

As Ehrlich, Mr. Population Explosion, has pointed out, you can have a
huge human population that has a disproportionately small
environmenntal impact, because (a) they're very poor, don't use up many
resources per person, and/or (b) the technologies they use to create
their wealth are pretty damned clean and sustainable.

Or you can have a relatively small population that is (a) extremely
wealthy, extremely greedy and/or successful in its consumption of
resources per person, and (b) uses really destructive or inefficient
technologies to support itself. And that small population will have a
disproportionately large negative impact on the environment, compared
to a much larger group of people with more frugal lifestyles and much
greener technologies.

Thus Ehrlich, although certainly NOT a fan of population growth in
India -- he once more or less advocated that the US let India collapse
-- Ehrlich concluded some years ago that the average American has as
much destructive impact on the global environment as 75 Indians, simply
because Americans are richer and more industrialized.

Or to put it another way, Ehrlich judged that the US population of
about 200 million people, at the time he was writing, had the same
environmental impact that 15 billion Indians would have. This
comparison is no doubt out of date, since average pc income in India
has grown enormously since Ehrlich wrote this, but you get the idea.

4. I think you've got to face up to this, Pharoah, if you're serious
about your population-based approach to global warming, other
eco-problems.

I'm not writing this to justify population growth either in the US or
in India; think both nations have more than enough people already. But
simple logic says that when individuals become richer, more successful
in their ability to exploit nature, and more dependent on anti-green
technologies, they're going to have disproportionately large effects on
the natural world. They're going to magnify the impacts that
population growth would have alone.

On global climate change triggered by fossil fuel burning and CO2
emissions, for example, historian J.R. McNeill, in "Something New Under
the Sun: An Environmental History of the Twentieth Century," estimates
that the human population basically grew by a factor of 4 between 1900
and around 1990 - from 1.5 billion people to around 6 billion.

The global use of fossil fuels over the same 90 years, though, grew by
a factor of around 16 or 17 -- four times as fast as the population.
Global CO2 emissions grew by about the same proportion, I think. And
global industrial activities, global manufacturing, grew by about 30
times in the same period.

QED: If you want to curb runaway global warming, you probably need to
tackle world population growth AND runaway growth in fossil fuel use
and industrial production.

5. I agree that whatever emotions we derive from religion, good deeds,
success in careers, success in love etc. all are mediated by, or
transmitted by, or embodied in, chemical changes in the brain and the
central nervous system.

If you get good enough drugs and you don't suffer from any negative
side effects, therefore, you can theoretically find total fulfillment
through brain chemistry -- meditation, joggers' high, torturing your
body for an adrenaline high in the manner of medieval Catholic saints,
ingesting LSD or heroin, etc. etc.

I think it's hard to control the negative side effects of the drugs,
though. I've tried some of this; didn't work too well for me. I
really think you'll be happier long-term if you find some satisfying
way to engage with the world, wicked and cruel though it may be.

6. Since all satisfaction ultimately is subjective, however, since all
of your victories and all of your defeats ultimately occur in the
brain, I think it follows that the attitude you take towards the world
is important. Critical, in fact.

The fact is, you are an intellectual and a physical component, a pretty
small component, of a much larger reality -- a world system, I guess we
can call it, which has human and non-human elements, various kinds of
human cultural components, etc.

If you adopt the attitude that you, the atom in the big machine, are a
separate entity with no moral or metaphysical connection to the rest of
the cosmos, I think you're going to find that your "self," your
individual ego and/or awareness is ultimately defeated, digested and
annihilated by the rest of the cosmos, human and natural.

That's how the system works. And if you view the bigger entity that is
slowly digesting you as totally "other," and as a hostile, enemy
"other" at that, you're going to suffer like hell from the process of
being defeated, eaten and annihilated.

If you take a somewhat wider view and agree with John Dunne that "no
man is an island," on the other hand, or if you agree with Emerson &
Alan Watts and the Hindu authors of the Upanishads that ultimately, all
of us are emanations of the same fundamental reality, all emanations of
"Brahma" or "the Oversoul" or "nature" -- whatever you call it -- then
you have a change of living in joy. Even as your individual ego is
being thwarted and ultimately snuffed out by the rest of the Godhead,
as it inevitably will be.

Depending on how you look at your connection with the rest of the
universe, you can live in subjective Hell, or you can exist in
subjective Paradise.

Personally, I recommend embracing the sort of impersonal or
collectivist illusion/fantasy that will lead you to subjective
Paradise. I recommend learning to "love" other people, and the natural
world, and even your various enemies -- because it's a better high, a
more enjoyable amusement park ride, than spending your life fighting
them and hating them.

The strict Theraveda Buddhists call this accepting the doctrine of the
"impermanence of the self," I believe. And I think they're onto
somethimg.

7. A footnote on subjective Heaven and subjective Hell: I also
suggest that you can live a lot more joyfully on the planet if you
learn to get your individual enjoyment and satisfaction out of
ACTIVITY, rather than merely out of CONSUMPTION and POSSESSION.

The capitalist entrepreneur building a business, the artist creating a
song or a picture, the revolutionary trying to make a revolution, the
basketball player striving to outshine Michael Jordan, the Wilderness
Society member who strives to safeguard wilderness -- all of them have
learned to get ego gratification from various kinds of creative
activity. Not just from piling up the biggest heap of money in the
world, or owning the biggest piece of land or the largest numbers of
Cadillacs, etc.

What this tells me is that most of these people -- from Ayn Rand's
idiotic hero John Galt railing against collectivism, to Osama Bin Laden
vowing to destroy the West, to Mother Teresa working to save orphans,
to the kid in the ghetto practicing his high jump, to John Muir working
to save Yosemite -- all of them have found ways to be happy even when
the outside world seems to be crushing them or neglecting them.

All of them, in their conflicting ways, are trying to do GOOD DEEDS as
opposed to piling up wealth on earth, where moth and rust corrupt, and
thieves break in and steal. And I bet they lead happier lives because
of it.

Which is why even you, Pharoah, COULD learn to get joy and
self-fulfillment out of working for a Green future that combines a
search for global economic justice and global compassion with a search
for population stability and cleaner industrial technologies.

I doubt you'll sign up for this, but there are other people who may
choose to. I hope so, anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"We may be fighting a losing battle,
but we're having a lot of fun
trying to win."
-- Peter, Paul and Mary (from age of trogdolytes in 1960s)

"Fire is Brahman.
And that, Svedartu, that are Thou."
-- The Upanishads
Post by Pharoah
Post by Orator
Post by Pharoah
I am so glad to win something, ...... anything
-----------------------
Maybe I'm falling for a con, Pharoah, but you sound rather wistful and
sad.
Perhaps you are falling for a con, but your writing is interesting.
Let me say more.
------------------------
Post by Orator
The Anglo-American writer on Zen Buddhism, Alan Watt -- a big hero
among some of the hippies in the 1960s -- has made a case for a
mystical sense of oneship in his book "The Book: On the Tabu Against
Knowing Who You Are," and also in some of his writings on Hinduism and
Buddhism.
You sound like a christian, I may be wrong. Can I ask if you feel sense
of connection with Jesus or God and if so what does it feel like to
you. One person I discussed religion with in another group said, in a
rather long posting in answer to just the same question, that it felt
....
<quote>
Like a baby must feel in it's mothers arms.
<end quote>
Other Xtians say much the same thing though not as poetically. I have
also noticed that Zen Meditation provides a similar feeling and I note
from Heroin addicts that they say that being on heroin provides a very
similar feeling of all being right with the world.
why are they all the same?
The answer is in your brain....not your view of the world
I say Happiness comes from within. Outside influences disturb it. You
know, the majority of people live petty dull lives and bicker and
quibble over trivial issues because they seek happiness in the world
around them, and the world around us all is selfish and doesnt care.
Post by Orator
What Watts would say is that if you identify yourself as a lone
individual, cut off from the rest of creation -- nature, nation,
family, humanity, religion, culture etc etc. -- by your own individual
ego and your own small bag of skin, you're bound to be depressed and at
war with almost everything. It's saner and happier, and actually it
makes some ecological and methaphysical sense, to recognize your
interconnections and your interdepencence with the rest of the
universe.
The opposite of paranoid is Pronoid. The world does not care. Fall on
hard times and the world will abandon you, get rich and the world will
love you. Happiness comes from within.
When you identify yourself not just with your own individual
Post by Orator
ego, but also with the human species at it's struggled to survive, and
with the evolving natural world that supports the human family -- you
recognize that you've already "WON" something -- a lot!
The Natural world is not capable of supporting 6 billion human beings
in the style to which we would all like to be accustomed.
Your Human family ?????
I bet you do not recognise how many people are working to support you.
The garbage man
The people who work at the dams and filtration and pumping stations
that let you have runing tap water
The people at the power companies who burn coal or oil or run nuclear
reactiors to generate electricity that they give to the people who
maintain the power lines that bring the electricity to your home so
that you can have HOT running tap water
When did you last thank the men and women who drive the trucks that
deliver food to the supermarket so the people in the supermarket can
stock the shelves so that you can eat tonight.
And lets not forget the farmers who grow the food, whether vegetable or
animal,
what about the people who work in the factories that make the clothes
you wear, the car you drive, the computer you now read this on....did
You send them a christmass card? when are their birthdays? Ha ! you
have no idea even what their names are
The police who will arrest a person who does wrong to you
the lawyers who will argue in your favour
the insurance agents who will pay you compensation (maybee)
the judges, the nurses and doctors who are waiting in hospitals to help
if you get sick or are injured
the people who make TV programs for your entertainment, writers,
actors, cameramen, stuntmen, the secretaries, the people in the canteen
who feed them and make the coffee
yes,. all these and many many more. It is a much wider world than even
you recognise. When did you last think of how much you owe to the
mena nd women who drive street sweepers keeping leaves and garbage from
clogging up the drains near your home?
(Put another way, if there was no crime at all. ??
How many police, forensic scientists, lawyers, jail wardens, parole
officers, judges, social workers, security guards, insurance workers,
.....would sudenly be unemployed??
You know what they say, dont wish too hard for what you want because
you just might get it.
No good deed goes unpunished)
Now think, if you could grow your own food, build your own house and
settle your own arguments and look after yourself if you are injured,
as people did a few thousand years ago you would not need all these
people
MY POINT BEING........THE BIGGEST CONSPIRACY OF ALL IS THAT OF HIDING
THE FACT THAT THERE ARE JUST TOOOOOOOO MANY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.
It isnt a question of finding alternative eco friendly power supplies,
it is a question of matching the supply the earth has with the demands
that we make of it. and in the future the demands will be greater.
Post by Orator
And if you act on
this insight, somehow -- doesn't have to be through Green politics; it
could be other things you identify with -- you may find that life
improves.
Life will not improve if we continue popping out babies all over the
globe.
Think of the starving in Africa, we have been supplying them with aid
for how long. What would have happened if we had never have given them
any aid.
Well for one thing we would not be hearing any stories at all of how
the big charity organisations rake off a huge percentage before they
distribute the aid. If there was a solution to the starving people of
third world countries the charities would fight it as it would not be
in their interests. Charities need the poor.
for another, a lot of people would have died, yes died, of starvation,
of malnutrition, of wars over food and shelter. Africa would have been
a worse bloodbath than it is now, but the reason it is as bad now as
parts of it are is simply because we kept a generation alive long
enough to reproduce.
OK, now think of this, when global population reaches that point where
the supply of food and shelter and air and resources do not meet the
demand the whole world will be in the state of the starving people of
africa......................where will the aid come from then.
That my friend is the truth, we are heading for population burnout, not
a shortage of oil, not global warming, not oil spills on the
beaches........population burnout.
The chinese at least have laws to limit the number of babies. The rest
of the world should sit up and take note.
Who really needs cloning, who really needs a longer life span......no
my friend, you do not need to live till you are 100 you do not need to
live forever. All biology demands is that you live long enough to
reproduce.
How many nursing homes for the aged have you been through. Sure its
nice to know your Gramps is looked after and a nurse keeps his morphine
topped up, but thats not for his health, its for their income.
Post by Orator
The Christian Jesus, as portrayed in the accepted Gospels, is not
everyone's cup of tea. Some non-Christians despiset the man's memory,
and maybe they're right. But I think Jesus said something interesting
when he is supposed to have said in one passage, "I have come to bring
you life, and life abundantly." And yet he is supposed to have said in
another passage, "He who seeks to save his life will lose it, and he
who seeks to lose his life for my sake will find it."
mathew 21: 18 to 20 KIng james version
tell me, did jesus pay compensation to the man whose fig tree he
killed?
And why is this a variation on a buddhist story in which the Buddha
meditated under a fig tree all night, and in the morning there were 2
fig trees. Both then gave a lecture on how what we believe creates our
reality.
Jesus was a man, who looked for meaning, he found at least some of his
meaning in buddhist thought which he got from the Greeks. Alexander the
Great fought his way to india 300 years before christ and Greek thought
influence buddhism and buddhism influenced greek thought.
No, jesus did not need to go to india to find buddhism, he got iot from
the greeks in asia minor and Xtianity grew strongest first of all in
Greek colonies of asia minor because the thoughts were familiar, alas,
time and the propagandists of Constantine have distorted the true
picture.
Post by Orator
Forget about the "for my sake" for a second; forget about the obvious
invocation to Christian martrydom, which looks a little suspicious in
the wake of the 9-11 attacks.
When spain was under Moorish rule Xtians, who fell for the myth that "
he who shall lose his life in my name shall find eternal life in
heaven" made suicidal raids into mosques.
The suicide raid, whether with fists, sword, gun, bomb or jet airliner
is a Xtian invention just as scalping was a white invention which the
Indians or native americans what ever term you like, adopted in
revenge.
Post by Orator
You'll never be entirely sure that it
was the "right" choice you made, obviously - because in an absurd
universe where none of us is smart enough or informed enough, who can
ever be sure that they're absolutely right?
I am being true to myself. We all are all of the time, we can be
nothing other than what we are in the same way that a pencil can only
be a pencil, never a teapot.
Post by Orator
What you WIN from the acceptance of existential despair and the making
of "absurd" existential choices is not necessarily a sense of oneness
and blessedness stemming from your relation to the cosmos. But you WIN
a sense of individual integrity, of having made your choice, as best
you can, in FREEDOM, and then of having the integrity and the toughness
to stick with it afterwards.
I sense that I have the freedom to say what I wish to say in this
group..
ARE YOU TELLING ME WHAT TO SAY AND THINK! ??
Post by Orator
Whatever your poltiics and your ecological sensibility turn out to be,
if you can identify something that isn't simply selfish, that you think
is important to do, and if you can then do it, you WIN a sense of
having become a worthwhile person, somebody that you yourself can
respect -- a least a little bit. It's much more satisfying than saying
"eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we shall die."
Tollerance is a great thing to have.
You know, when you can hear the cynical, the pessimistic, the
downhearted, the sad, the miserable, the depressed, ....and you can
allow them to be cynical, pessimistic, downhearted, sad, miserable and
depressed, .....without trying to change them, then you are truly
tollerant. It is their life, and only they have the right to change it
If you feel you need to cheer them up, lift their spirits, raise their
morale.....
..............then .............
You have the right to be dissapointed.
Lloyd Parker
2006-06-28 13:13:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pharoah
if there is a god then global warming or cooling or whatever are gods
will and there is not a damn thing we can do
if there is no god then it really does not matter a damn what happens
Yes. Unless you've got some way for the human race to abandon this planet if
and when it becomes unlivable.
Post by Pharoah
face it, you are going to die anyway, so why care about what might or
might not happen after you are gone. ??
By that argument, we wouldn't try to cure diseases, we wouldn't have laws
against murder, we wouldn't try to prevent wars...
Post by Pharoah
global warming is irrelevant
You will be assimilated.
Post by Pharoah
No one has yet proven that the hole in the ozone layer was not there in
the last century
Idiot. That's established fact.
Pharoah
2006-06-28 20:03:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Pharoah
if there is a god then global warming or cooling or whatever are gods
will and there is not a damn thing we can do
if there is no god then it really does not matter a damn what happens
Yes. Unless you've got some way for the human race to abandon this planet if
and when it becomes unlivable.
Post by Pharoah
face it, you are going to die anyway, so why care about what might or
might not happen after you are gone. ??
By that argument, we wouldn't try to cure diseases, we wouldn't have laws
against murder, we wouldn't try to prevent wars...
Post by Pharoah
global warming is irrelevant
You will be assimilated.
Post by Pharoah
No one has yet proven that the hole in the ozone layer was not there in
the last century
Idiot. That's established fact.
Ok well not the last century but was there a hole in the ozone layer in
the 1800's ? we DONT KNOW


Face it, humans are evolutions worst mistake, support nature and help
clear the planet of humanity.

6 billion is far too many people, look at the mess we make, 6 million
is enough world wide

how many people in 100 years time if there was no global warming.
Population alone is enough to destroy us.
Rove DID Leak CIA Agent's Identity
2006-06-29 01:21:31 UTC
Permalink
Time for PSYCHOPATH "pharoah" to leave.
Post by Pharoah
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Pharoah
if there is a god then global warming or cooling or whatever are gods
will and there is not a damn thing we can do
if there is no god then it really does not matter a damn what happens
Yes. Unless you've got some way for the human race to abandon this planet if
and when it becomes unlivable.
Post by Pharoah
face it, you are going to die anyway, so why care about what might or
might not happen after you are gone. ??
By that argument, we wouldn't try to cure diseases, we wouldn't have laws
against murder, we wouldn't try to prevent wars...
Post by Pharoah
global warming is irrelevant
You will be assimilated.
Post by Pharoah
No one has yet proven that the hole in the ozone layer was not there in
the last century
Idiot. That's established fact.
Ok well not the last century but was there a hole in the ozone layer in
the 1800's ? we DONT KNOW
Face it, humans are evolutions worst mistake, support nature and help
clear the planet of humanity.
6 billion is far too many people, look at the mess we make, 6 million
is enough world wide
how many people in 100 years time if there was no global warming.
Population alone is enough to destroy us.
Time for PSYCHOPATH "pharoah" to leave.
Pharoah
2006-06-29 20:26:41 UTC
Permalink
and glad to go at that.

Your all a bunch of freaks,


Bydiiidly bye neighbourinos
Post by Rove DID Leak CIA Agent's Identity
Time for PSYCHOPATH "pharoah" to leave.
Post by Pharoah
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Pharoah
if there is a god then global warming or cooling or whatever are gods
will and there is not a damn thing we can do
if there is no god then it really does not matter a damn what happens
Yes. Unless you've got some way for the human race to abandon this planet if
and when it becomes unlivable.
Post by Pharoah
face it, you are going to die anyway, so why care about what might or
might not happen after you are gone. ??
By that argument, we wouldn't try to cure diseases, we wouldn't have laws
against murder, we wouldn't try to prevent wars...
Post by Pharoah
global warming is irrelevant
You will be assimilated.
Post by Pharoah
No one has yet proven that the hole in the ozone layer was not there in
the last century
Idiot. That's established fact.
Ok well not the last century but was there a hole in the ozone layer in
the 1800's ? we DONT KNOW
Face it, humans are evolutions worst mistake, support nature and help
clear the planet of humanity.
6 billion is far too many people, look at the mess we make, 6 million
is enough world wide
how many people in 100 years time if there was no global warming.
Population alone is enough to destroy us.
Time for PSYCHOPATH "pharoah" to leave.
Roedy Green
2006-06-29 01:36:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pharoah
Ok well not the last century but was there a hole in the ozone layer in
the 1800's ? we DONT KNOW
How do you know there is no way of telling? Do you know anything
about the direct and indirect ways of measuring the ozone layer? Nope.
You are just talking through your hat.

We know there was no hole in the 1960s.

The first measurement of the thickness of the ozone layer was made in
1919 by Charles Fabry.

http://www.albany.edu/faculty/rgk/atm101/o3histor.htm

This was sufficiently before the invention of CFCs to provide a
control for natural variation.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green, http://mindprod.com
Who's in charge Cheney or Bush? Ask the people who work for them:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/
Lloyd Parker
2006-06-29 14:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pharoah
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Pharoah
if there is a god then global warming or cooling or whatever are gods
will and there is not a damn thing we can do
if there is no god then it really does not matter a damn what happens
Yes. Unless you've got some way for the human race to abandon this planet if
and when it becomes unlivable.
Post by Pharoah
face it, you are going to die anyway, so why care about what might or
might not happen after you are gone. ??
By that argument, we wouldn't try to cure diseases, we wouldn't have laws
against murder, we wouldn't try to prevent wars...
Post by Pharoah
global warming is irrelevant
You will be assimilated.
Post by Pharoah
No one has yet proven that the hole in the ozone layer was not there in
the last century
Idiot. That's established fact.
Ok well not the last century but was there a hole in the ozone layer in
the 1800's ? we DONT KNOW
Yes we do. It started in the 1970s.
Post by Pharoah
Face it, humans are evolutions worst mistake, support nature and help
clear the planet of humanity.
6 billion is far too many people, look at the mess we make, 6 million
is enough world wide
how many people in 100 years time if there was no global warming.
Population alone is enough to destroy us.
n***@telus.net
2006-06-29 00:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pharoah
No one has yet proven that the hole in the ozone layer was not there in
the last century
In 1984, when the British first reported their findings, October ozone
levels were about 35 percent lower than the average for the 1960s.
http://www.theozonehole.com/ozoneholehistory.htm
john fernbach
2006-06-29 02:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pharoah
if there is a god then global warming or cooling or whatever are gods
will and there is not a damn thing we can do
if there is no god then it really does not matter a damn what happens
face it, you are going to die anyway, so why care about what might or
might not happen after you are gone. ??
-----------------------------------------------------------

Some of us are agnostics when it comes to religion.

But whether you believe in a deity or not -- don't some Christians also
think that human beings are given free will? And don't Jews, Muslims,
Hindus, Zoarastrians and at least some Buddhists emphasize that human
beings have important choices to make -- that we aren't simply God's
puppets?

Admittedly some believers in God think we have little free will - the
strict Calvinists believe in Predestination. But many beleivers in God
disagree.

So it's possible that we are screwing up the environment out of our own
choices -- not because God willed it or planned it. If so -- maybe God
would want us to STOP screwing up the environment, because it's His
creation -- and according to Judaeo Christian scripture, anyway, He
looked on it and "saw that it was good.".

If there is no god, however, why does it follow that there is no
significance to you what will happens to the earth, and the humans it
supports, and all of the plants and animals?

Even if you as an indiidual are not immortal, the DNA in your family
line will long outlive you. Your thoughts, passed on in words, your
political preferences whether good or evil, your cultural preferences
in music and literature, the impact you make on friends and family may
last for centuries. You reputation, good or bad, may well outlive you.
So you are an individual, but you also are part of a greater Whole.
As such, it behooves you to care for the Whole -- which may be nearly
immortal, even if you are not.
-----------------------------------
"The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but ourselves."
-- Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

"First, seek wisdom ... seek knowledge."
-- The Book of Proverbs

"What is of no use to the hive is of no interest to the bee."
-- Meditations of the Emperor Marcus Aurelius
Post by Pharoah
global warming is irrelevant
No one has yet proven that the hole in the ozone layer was not there in
the last century
n***@telus.net
2006-06-29 00:20:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orator
Or if viewed in another way - you have aquired a particular "religion" that
you merely "believe" and that is why you refer to your "religious texts" and
as a result have nothing to say on the subject and resort to sexual
fantasies instead. Whatever turns you on buddy.
Consensus science is not religion. It a strict system of evidence,
cross checking, and ruthless elimination and humiliation of anyone
caught cheating.

What you are doing is wishful thinking, treating science as no more
valid than the wind coming out of a politician.
Morton Davis
2006-06-29 01:03:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
Or if viewed in another way - you have aquired a particular "religion" that
you merely "believe" and that is why you refer to your "religious texts" and
as a result have nothing to say on the subject and resort to sexual
fantasies instead. Whatever turns you on buddy.
Consensus science is not religion. It a strict system of evidence,
cross checking, and ruthless elimination and humiliation of anyone
caught cheating.
What you are doing is wishful thinking, treating science as no more
valid than the wind coming out of a politician.
The key word is CONSENSUS meaning not a fact.
Roedy Green
2006-06-29 01:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morton Davis
Post by n***@telus.net
What you are doing is wishful thinking, treating science as no more
valid than the wind coming out of a politician.
The key word is CONSENSUS meaning not a fact.
Science is the closest thing to fact you get on earth. All science
is considered provisional. It is constantly being refined. That it
what makes it trustworthy. If there is disagreement, new experiments
are done to resolve the difference to everyone's satisfaction. They
are not resolved by mere arguing or name calling.

There are very few scientific scandals. One of the most famous
happened a century ago where theologician, Teilhard de Chardin
managed to concoct a phony skull of early man that fooled scientists
for a short while. All the openness required in publishing and the
cross checking and the career-destroying humiliation of publishing an
error or fraud works fairly well.

What bothers me is you don't even seem to grasp the most basic
principles of the scientific method taught in grade 7 in Canadian
schools. What an arrogant puppy you are to pontificate on science with
no scientific background at all.

You hold up quibbles about fine points as if that were sufficient to
discredit the entire theory. 99% of the time they just reflect the
ignorance of the quibbler. Even if they were valid, there are
millions of other supports to the theory.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green, http://mindprod.com
Who's in charge Cheney or Bush? Ask the people who work for them:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/
Lloyd Parker
2006-06-29 14:23:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morton Davis
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
Or if viewed in another way - you have aquired a particular "religion"
that
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
you merely "believe" and that is why you refer to your "religious texts"
and
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
as a result have nothing to say on the subject and resort to sexual
fantasies instead. Whatever turns you on buddy.
Consensus science is not religion. It a strict system of evidence,
cross checking, and ruthless elimination and humiliation of anyone
caught cheating.
What you are doing is wishful thinking, treating science as no more
valid than the wind coming out of a politician.
The key word is CONSENSUS meaning not a fact.
Gee, there's consensus on the existence of atoms. I guess atoms aren't
factual. Oh well.
Orator
2006-06-29 08:26:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
Or if viewed in another way - you have aquired a particular "religion" that
you merely "believe" and that is why you refer to your "religious texts" and
as a result have nothing to say on the subject and resort to sexual
fantasies instead. Whatever turns you on buddy.
Consensus science is not religion.
It isn't "consensus science", but populist politics. I would prefer to call
that "following the pied piper". Unfortunately this whole thing has ended up
as a political football more than science. The garbage being disseminated is
quite incredible and often blatantly wrong. Believe it or not, but there are
"scientists" who have argued the melting of ice shelves will case a rise in
the sea level. That is about as "scientific" as it can get, right?.
Post by n***@telus.net
It a strict system of evidence,
cross checking, and ruthless elimination and humiliation of anyone
caught cheating.
Oh come on! Most GW advocates resort to dishonesty in the presentation of
their graphs - they tend to take it from the end of the little ice age
wheren it shows a rather "convenient" upsurge of temperature - specially
when the graph is doctored to enhance this look, a favourable placement of
the "0" reference point in a location to support the contentions. Tim
Flannery, normally a highly respected scientist has been caught out making
monsterous bogus claims of doom and gloom.

See:
http://oratorium.bigblog.com.au/blog.do
Post by n***@telus.net
What you are doing is wishful thinking, treating science as no more
valid than the wind coming out of a politician.
That is what is happening - it is politics and big bucks that is at issue
here. It is much like all these "organic food" claims. I would like to see
what *"inorganic"* food looks like!

I point to valid, well known research that shows it has been warmer in the
recent past than it is today. I point to the lack of standards and reference
points and the like, a distinct lack of consensus. Once these problems are
fixed, then perhaps proper valid research can be undertaken with some
realistic end results.
Thomas Lee Elifritz
2006-06-29 13:55:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orator
That is what is happening - it is politics and big bucks that is at issue
here. It is much like all these "organic food" claims. I would like to see
what *"inorganic"* food looks like!
It looks like hydroponically grown food you dumb fuck.
Post by Orator
I point to valid, well known research that shows it has been warmer in the
recent past than it is today. I point to the lack of standards and reference
points and the like, a distinct lack of consensus. Once these problems are
fixed, then perhaps proper valid research can be undertaken with some
realistic end results.
Cuz yer a dumbfuck, right?

http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Lloyd Parker
2006-06-29 14:28:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
Or if viewed in another way - you have aquired a particular "religion"
that
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
you merely "believe" and that is why you refer to your "religious texts"
and
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
as a result have nothing to say on the subject and resort to sexual
fantasies instead. Whatever turns you on buddy.
Consensus science is not religion.
It isn't "consensus science", but populist politics. I would prefer to call
that "following the pied piper". Unfortunately this whole thing has ended up
as a political football more than science. The garbage being disseminated is
quite incredible and often blatantly wrong.
OK, idiot alert.
Post by Orator
Believe it or not, but there are
"scientists" who have argued the melting of ice shelves will case a rise in
the sea level. That is about as "scientific" as it can get, right?.
What's your point?
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
It a strict system of evidence,
cross checking, and ruthless elimination and humiliation of anyone
caught cheating.
Oh come on! Most GW advocates resort to dishonesty in the presentation of
their graphs -
OK, lying again.
Post by Orator
they tend to take it from the end of the little ice age
wheren it shows a rather "convenient" upsurge of temperature - specially
when the graph is doctored to enhance this look, a favourable placement of
the "0" reference point in a location to support the contentions. Tim
Flannery, normally a highly respected scientist has been caught out making
monsterous bogus claims of doom and gloom.
Yeah, sure.
Post by Orator
http://oratorium.bigblog.com.au/blog.do
Because we all know blogs are irrefutable scientific proof.
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
What you are doing is wishful thinking, treating science as no more
valid than the wind coming out of a politician.
That is what is happening - it is politics and big bucks that is at issue
here. It is much like all these "organic food" claims. I would like to see
what *"inorganic"* food looks like!
I point to valid, well known research that shows it has been warmer in the
recent past than it is today.
A total lie.
Post by Orator
I point to the lack of standards and reference
points and the like, a distinct lack of consensus.
On what? The consensus is, GW is happening and humans are causing it.
Post by Orator
Once these problems are
fixed, then perhaps proper valid research can be undertaken with some
realistic end results.
Orator
2006-06-30 06:52:16 UTC
Permalink
This is what is a demonstrably "religious response". Nothing in this message
by "Lloyd Parker" (or that form the so called "Japanese Whaling Science Unit
731" - an oxymoron) refutes anything stated by me, or pointed to by me.
Lloyd's "is too" assertions are not worth the pixels it wasts.

What we see here is an example of unscientific nonsense by people with a
mind closed tighter than Scrooge's purse. It is why there will be no sanity
in any of the GW claims, only mindless froth and bubble. It is mostly
emotive clap trap that denies well known, accepted and understood research.
Responses like this from "Lloyd Parker" have no place in a sci.* forum.

--
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
Or if viewed in another way - you have aquired a particular "religion"
that
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
you merely "believe" and that is why you refer to your "religious texts"
and
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
as a result have nothing to say on the subject and resort to sexual
fantasies instead. Whatever turns you on buddy.
Consensus science is not religion.
It isn't "consensus science", but populist politics. I would prefer to call
that "following the pied piper". Unfortunately this whole thing has ended up
as a political football more than science. The garbage being disseminated is
quite incredible and often blatantly wrong.
OK, idiot alert.
Post by Orator
Believe it or not, but there are
"scientists" who have argued the melting of ice shelves will case a rise in
the sea level. That is about as "scientific" as it can get, right?.
What's your point?
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
It a strict system of evidence,
cross checking, and ruthless elimination and humiliation of anyone
caught cheating.
Oh come on! Most GW advocates resort to dishonesty in the presentation of
their graphs -
OK, lying again.
Post by Orator
they tend to take it from the end of the little ice age
wheren it shows a rather "convenient" upsurge of temperature - specially
when the graph is doctored to enhance this look, a favourable placement of
the "0" reference point in a location to support the contentions. Tim
Flannery, normally a highly respected scientist has been caught out making
monsterous bogus claims of doom and gloom.
Yeah, sure.
Post by Orator
http://oratorium.bigblog.com.au/blog.do
Because we all know blogs are irrefutable scientific proof.
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
What you are doing is wishful thinking, treating science as no more
valid than the wind coming out of a politician.
That is what is happening - it is politics and big bucks that is at issue
here. It is much like all these "organic food" claims. I would like to see
what *"inorganic"* food looks like!
I point to valid, well known research that shows it has been warmer in the
recent past than it is today.
A total lie.
Post by Orator
I point to the lack of standards and reference
points and the like, a distinct lack of consensus.
On what? The consensus is, GW is happening and humans are causing it.
Post by Orator
Once these problems are
fixed, then perhaps proper valid research can be undertaken with some
realistic end results.
Prosecute EXXON Stockholders for Global Warming FLOOD Damages
2006-06-30 08:26:38 UTC
Permalink
Oralator Gives Good Mouth.

Very mouthy there Oralator.
Post by Orator
This is what is a demonstrably "religious response". Nothing in this message
by "Lloyd Parker" (or that form the so called "Japanese Whaling Science Unit
731" - an oxymoron) refutes anything stated by me, or pointed to by me.
Lloyd's "is too" assertions are not worth the pixels it wasts.
What we see here is an example of unscientific nonsense by people with a
mind closed tighter than Scrooge's purse. It is why there will be no sanity
in any of the GW claims, only mindless froth and bubble. It is mostly
emotive clap trap that denies well known, accepted and understood research.
Responses like this from "Lloyd Parker" have no place in a sci.* forum.
--
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
Or if viewed in another way - you have aquired a particular "religion"
that
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
you merely "believe" and that is why you refer to your "religious
texts"
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
and
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
as a result have nothing to say on the subject and resort to sexual
fantasies instead. Whatever turns you on buddy.
Consensus science is not religion.
It isn't "consensus science", but populist politics. I would prefer to
call
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
that "following the pied piper". Unfortunately this whole thing has ended
up
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
as a political football more than science. The garbage being disseminated
is
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
quite incredible and often blatantly wrong.
OK, idiot alert.
Post by Orator
Believe it or not, but there are
"scientists" who have argued the melting of ice shelves will case a rise
in
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
the sea level. That is about as "scientific" as it can get, right?.
What's your point?
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
It a strict system of evidence,
cross checking, and ruthless elimination and humiliation of anyone
caught cheating.
Oh come on! Most GW advocates resort to dishonesty in the presentation of
their graphs -
OK, lying again.
Post by Orator
they tend to take it from the end of the little ice age
wheren it shows a rather "convenient" upsurge of temperature - specially
when the graph is doctored to enhance this look, a favourable placement
of
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
the "0" reference point in a location to support the contentions. Tim
Flannery, normally a highly respected scientist has been caught out
making
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
monsterous bogus claims of doom and gloom.
Yeah, sure.
Post by Orator
http://oratorium.bigblog.com.au/blog.do
Because we all know blogs are irrefutable scientific proof.
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
What you are doing is wishful thinking, treating science as no more
valid than the wind coming out of a politician.
That is what is happening - it is politics and big bucks that is at issue
here. It is much like all these "organic food" claims. I would like to
see
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
what *"inorganic"* food looks like!
I point to valid, well known research that shows it has been warmer in
the
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
recent past than it is today.
A total lie.
Post by Orator
I point to the lack of standards and reference
points and the like, a distinct lack of consensus.
On what? The consensus is, GW is happening and humans are causing it.
Post by Orator
Once these problems are
fixed, then perhaps proper valid research can be undertaken with some
realistic end results.
Lloyd Parker
2006-06-30 11:42:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orator
This is what is a demonstrably "religious response". Nothing in this message
by "Lloyd Parker" (or that form the so called "Japanese Whaling Science Unit
731" - an oxymoron) refutes anything stated by me, or pointed to by me.
Which were what?
Post by Orator
Lloyd's "is too" assertions are not worth the pixels it wasts.
What we see here is an example of unscientific nonsense by people with a
mind closed tighter than Scrooge's purse. It is why there will be no sanity
in any of the GW claims,
OK, you're an idiot. That's my assertion, and you've just proved it.

NASA, IPCC, EPA, NOAA, and NAS support me. Nobody with intelligence supports
you. Further evidence that you're an idiot.
Post by Orator
only mindless froth and bubble. It is mostly
emotive clap trap that denies well known, accepted and understood research.
Responses like this from "Lloyd Parker" have no place in a sci.* forum.
john fernbach
2006-06-30 23:21:05 UTC
Permalink
I remember reading Plato's dialogues in college, and if I remember
correctly, the "Orator" was always someone that the true philospher
distrusted, because Orators -- sophists, as they were known in Athens
-- specialized in the art of winning debates regardless of the truth of
their statements.

I wouldn't want to call myself "Orator," personally. It would tell me
that I was passing myself off as a professional liar -- a propagandist.
And being genuinely interested in truth, Socrates thought, was much,
much more conducive to happiness.

That being as it may, here's an interesting link to a University of
Maine web site that discusses CO2 emissions as a cause of
"anthropogenic" climate change.

The U Maine site, which is a little annoying graphically, also
discusses other factors that affect the climate -- the precession of
the Earth's orbit, "wobbles" in the Earth's orbit, changes in the
intensity of incoming radiation, etc.

http://www.climatechange.umaine.edu/Research/news/ClimateExplanation/ClimatePages67.pdf
Post by Orator
This is what is a demonstrably "religious response". Nothing in this message
by "Lloyd Parker" (or that form the so called "Japanese Whaling Science Unit
731" - an oxymoron) refutes anything stated by me, or pointed to by me.
Lloyd's "is too" assertions are not worth the pixels it wasts.
What we see here is an example of unscientific nonsense by people with a
mind closed tighter than Scrooge's purse. It is why there will be no sanity
in any of the GW claims, only mindless froth and bubble. It is mostly
emotive clap trap that denies well known, accepted and understood research.
Responses like this from "Lloyd Parker" have no place in a sci.* forum.
--
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
Or if viewed in another way - you have aquired a particular "religion"
that
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
you merely "believe" and that is why you refer to your "religious
texts"
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
and
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
as a result have nothing to say on the subject and resort to sexual
fantasies instead. Whatever turns you on buddy.
Consensus science is not religion.
It isn't "consensus science", but populist politics. I would prefer to
call
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
that "following the pied piper". Unfortunately this whole thing has ended
up
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
as a political football more than science. The garbage being disseminated
is
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
quite incredible and often blatantly wrong.
OK, idiot alert.
Post by Orator
Believe it or not, but there are
"scientists" who have argued the melting of ice shelves will case a rise
in
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
the sea level. That is about as "scientific" as it can get, right?.
What's your point?
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
It a strict system of evidence,
cross checking, and ruthless elimination and humiliation of anyone
caught cheating.
Oh come on! Most GW advocates resort to dishonesty in the presentation of
their graphs -
OK, lying again.
Post by Orator
they tend to take it from the end of the little ice age
wheren it shows a rather "convenient" upsurge of temperature - specially
when the graph is doctored to enhance this look, a favourable placement
of
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
the "0" reference point in a location to support the contentions. Tim
Flannery, normally a highly respected scientist has been caught out
making
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
monsterous bogus claims of doom and gloom.
Yeah, sure.
Post by Orator
http://oratorium.bigblog.com.au/blog.do
Because we all know blogs are irrefutable scientific proof.
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
What you are doing is wishful thinking, treating science as no more
valid than the wind coming out of a politician.
That is what is happening - it is politics and big bucks that is at issue
here. It is much like all these "organic food" claims. I would like to
see
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
what *"inorganic"* food looks like!
I point to valid, well known research that shows it has been warmer in
the
Post by Lloyd Parker
Post by Orator
recent past than it is today.
A total lie.
Post by Orator
I point to the lack of standards and reference
points and the like, a distinct lack of consensus.
On what? The consensus is, GW is happening and humans are causing it.
Post by Orator
Once these problems are
fixed, then perhaps proper valid research can be undertaken with some
realistic end results.
Japanese Whaling Science Unit 731
2006-06-29 21:08:54 UTC
Permalink
"Orator" rightwing psychotic ravings demonstrate the perversity of
Bushites
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
Or if viewed in another way - you have aquired a particular "religion"
that
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
you merely "believe" and that is why you refer to your "religious texts"
and
Post by n***@telus.net
Post by Orator
as a result have nothing to say on the subject and resort to sexual
fantasies instead. Whatever turns you on buddy.
Consensus science is not religion.
It isn't "consensus science", but populist politics. I would prefer to call
that "following the pied piper". Unfortunately this whole thing has ended up
as a political football more than science. The garbage being disseminated is
quite incredible and often blatantly wrong. Believe it or not, but there are
"scientists" who have argued the melting of ice shelves will case a rise in
the sea level. That is about as "scientific" as it can get, right?.
But unfortunately you can't back up this claim with links and citations
that show anybody ever actually said that.
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
It a strict system of evidence,
cross checking, and ruthless elimination and humiliation of anyone
caught cheating.
Oh come on! Most GW advocates resort to dishonesty in the presentation of
their graphs - they tend to take it from the end of the little ice age
wheren it shows a rather "convenient" upsurge of temperature - specially
when the graph is doctored to enhance this look, a favourable placement of
the "0" reference point in a location to support the contentions. Tim
Flannery, normally a highly respected scientist has been caught out making
monsterous bogus claims of doom and gloom.
It's "convenient" to illustrate the facts of a relevent period for
which you have the best most sound science evidence. All scientists do
that. The farther back in time the more evidence has decayed from aging
processes -- so scientists use the time period they have, not the one
you wish they had to prove some other point. Your charge that
scientists start from a pointr where the evidence is good ignores the
fact that evidence decays over time -- of course scientists start where
the evidence is best, just as you would if you weren't a sicko-psycho
pathological liar.
Post by Orator
Post by n***@telus.net
What you are doing is wishful thinking, treating science as no more
valid than the wind coming out of a politician.
That is what is happening - it is politics and big bucks that is at issue
here. It is much like all these "organic food" claims. I would like to see
what *"inorganic"* food looks like!
"ORGANIC" food has a legally binding defintion. All food not labelled
"ORGANIC" is non-organic by legal definition -- you have seen it on all
the aisles of most supermarkets all of your life. "ORGANIC FOODS" has
no part in this discussion, other than distraction -- "Hey, look at the
invisible wookie over there". Your inability to stay on a subject does
not make your weak points right, rightard.
Post by Orator
I point to valid, well known research that shows it has been warmer in the
recent past than it is today. I point to the lack of standards and reference
points and the like, a distinct lack of consensus. Once these problems are
fixed, then perhaps proper valid research can be undertaken with some
realistic end results.
But you can't find links and evidence and citations to back up your
bogus claim.

There are no problems, other than your lying, which needs to be fixed
about this discussion.
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